Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
And then the Cardassians switched sides and the tide shifted again.
And then the Cardassians switched sides and the tide shifted again.
Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoilers*
- Thread starter ReadyAndWilling
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Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
I don't see it as at all unrealistic for the Federation and their allies to have won. Frankly, once the Romulans got involved, it should have turned into a rout. Think about it-the Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans have long been depicted as the major three powers of the Alpha Quadrant. Period. The Cardassians were never depicted as being on that level, and were basically Dominion puppets in the war anyway. The Breen? Had they ever been mentioned as a first-rate power? Then toward the end of the war, most of the Cardassians switched sides.
So basically, you had the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassian resistance movement, PLUS the contribution of the wormhole aliens........ against what? One Gamma Quadrant empire and the Breen? It would have been beyond a reach to have the Dominion win even before the Cardassians switch, and certainly so after.
I don't see it as at all unrealistic for the Federation and their allies to have won. Frankly, once the Romulans got involved, it should have turned into a rout. Think about it-the Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans have long been depicted as the major three powers of the Alpha Quadrant. Period. The Cardassians were never depicted as being on that level, and were basically Dominion puppets in the war anyway. The Breen? Had they ever been mentioned as a first-rate power? Then toward the end of the war, most of the Cardassians switched sides.
So basically, you had the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassian resistance movement, PLUS the contribution of the wormhole aliens........ against what? One Gamma Quadrant empire and the Breen? It would have been beyond a reach to have the Dominion win even before the Cardassians switch, and certainly so after.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
empire is not = empire, they might be different in size and power. say, like the british, and aztec empires. the dominion forces, despite of being separated from from their base in the gamma q, and restricted to the resources of the rather small cardassian union, managed to outmatch the combined fed/klingon/romulan forces.
the living god sisko won the war.
empire is not = empire, they might be different in size and power. say, like the british, and aztec empires. the dominion forces, despite of being separated from from their base in the gamma q, and restricted to the resources of the rather small cardassian union, managed to outmatch the combined fed/klingon/romulan forces.
the living god sisko won the war.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
Not really, the Klingons and Romulans are their equals not their betters. They were always beating the Cardassians in normal combat, and the Borg are tougher than anyone.
So no, the Feds aren't inadequate in war.
Not really, the Klingons and Romulans are their equals not their betters. They were always beating the Cardassians in normal combat, and the Borg are tougher than anyone.
So no, the Feds aren't inadequate in war.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
I think the hopelessly disadvantage angle works, because of the suspense it created--
It appeared to me like the Dominion was always in a superior position, but then the Federation would do something to slow them down from time to time-like destroying their Ketracel White supply.
Or have the Romulans join the war.
In fact, when they really started targeting the Dominion's shipyards and such, that's when the Dominion started pulling back more...
I think a lot is owed to Federation smarts and intelligence...
I think the hopelessly disadvantage angle works, because of the suspense it created--
It appeared to me like the Dominion was always in a superior position, but then the Federation would do something to slow them down from time to time-like destroying their Ketracel White supply.
Or have the Romulans join the war.
In fact, when they really started targeting the Dominion's shipyards and such, that's when the Dominion started pulling back more...
I think a lot is owed to Federation smarts and intelligence...
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
You can't ignore the fact that The Federation and it's allies had home court advantage. Didn't Dukat in A Call To Arms say "I've found it wise to never underestimate the Federations technical skill or Captain Siskos resourcefulness" Even Dukat was smart enough to realize this.
You can't ignore the fact that The Federation and it's allies had home court advantage. Didn't Dukat in A Call To Arms say "I've found it wise to never underestimate the Federations technical skill or Captain Siskos resourcefulness" Even Dukat was smart enough to realize this.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
The Federation won before the war started. Because of the plague weapon, the Founders were already dead.
What I never understood is why the tards who had the cure didn't mention that to anybody, so that they could negotiate a peace. The war probably could have ended immediately after it began, and the Dominion forced to do just about anything that preserved the existence of the Founders, including removing itself from the AQ and dismantling itself.
Though it's funny: the Federation won the war like most people win wars--by being better at killing than the enemy was.
The Federation won before the war started. Because of the plague weapon, the Founders were already dead.
What I never understood is why the tards who had the cure didn't mention that to anybody, so that they could negotiate a peace. The war probably could have ended immediately after it began, and the Dominion forced to do just about anything that preserved the existence of the Founders, including removing itself from the AQ and dismantling itself.
Though it's funny: the Federation won the war like most people win wars--by being better at killing than the enemy was.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
I imagine that S31 were hoping that the Federation would win the war through conventional warfare, even if it caused hundreds of millions of people to die. If that didn't work, and the Dominion began to bombard Earth or Vulcan or one of the core worlds, then they would contact the Dominion about a truce. I imagine that when Betazed fell and the Dominion were within reach of Vulcan and Alpha Centauri, S31 were almost ready to act, but then Sisko brought the Romulans into the war and everything changed.
Section 31 existed for at least 200 years with almost nobody knowing of them, they weren't about to announce themselves to the galaxy after all that time. What's more, the Federation wouldn't want to be seen to go along with a genocidal plan, it would completely ruin their reputation for being pro truth, democracy and all that good stuff.
I imagine that S31 were hoping that the Federation would win the war through conventional warfare, even if it caused hundreds of millions of people to die. If that didn't work, and the Dominion began to bombard Earth or Vulcan or one of the core worlds, then they would contact the Dominion about a truce. I imagine that when Betazed fell and the Dominion were within reach of Vulcan and Alpha Centauri, S31 were almost ready to act, but then Sisko brought the Romulans into the war and everything changed.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
I didn't find it too unbelievable especially because i never doubted Sisko, had Sisko died even thou i knew that would never happen, than i would have doubted a victory and found it too outrageous had the federation won.
I didn't find it too unbelievable especially because i never doubted Sisko, had Sisko died even thou i knew that would never happen, than i would have doubted a victory and found it too outrageous had the federation won.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
You know that's a good point, and I wonder why it's not brought up more-screw the value of Section 31's secrecy, this was war, and the Feds were holding a trump card WITHOUT ANYONE KNOWING IT WAS THEIR TRUMP CARD. That is pretty stupid strategy-if Sec 31 was getting approval to develop the plague from Starfleet, then Starfleet was already in for a penny, in for a pound.
More on the subject of the plague-it was basically a war crime, so was it actually authorized by certain Starfleet officials? If so, were they prosecuted? It's not like you should get a pass on war crimes if you win.
You know that's a good point, and I wonder why it's not brought up more-screw the value of Section 31's secrecy, this was war, and the Feds were holding a trump card WITHOUT ANYONE KNOWING IT WAS THEIR TRUMP CARD. That is pretty stupid strategy-if Sec 31 was getting approval to develop the plague from Starfleet, then Starfleet was already in for a penny, in for a pound.
More on the subject of the plague-it was basically a war crime, so was it actually authorized by certain Starfleet officials? If so, were they prosecuted? It's not like you should get a pass on war crimes if you win.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
If you're cheating at poker with an ace up your sleeve, you don't take it out until all the cards are dealt, because you might not need it. There was a chance that the Federation could win the war without using their trump card, and they practically did, albeit by using the Prophet's magic and Garak's subterfuge. The Federation didn't need to make a truce with the Dominion in exchange for the cure because they were already going to win.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
And like I said, the female Founder's threat that the clean-up after the war would leave them wide open for another Dominion attack was an empty threat: The Prophets wouldn't let anymore Dominion ships through for another attack, and the Founders would all be dead soon so more than likely the Dominion would self-destruct.
So no matter WHAT happened, the Dominion would still be the bigger losers.
And like I said, the female Founder's threat that the clean-up after the war would leave them wide open for another Dominion attack was an empty threat: The Prophets wouldn't let anymore Dominion ships through for another attack, and the Founders would all be dead soon so more than likely the Dominion would self-destruct.
So no matter WHAT happened, the Dominion would still be the bigger losers.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
I don't know if anyone mentioned this but the only way the Dominion even had a chance to beat the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans is to trick them into fighting each other so by the time the Dominion decided to directly attack the three Alpha Quadrant powers a good percentage of their forces were destroyed and the Dominion was fighting much weaker fleets.
Weren't the Federation and Klingons fighting each other for almost a year before the Dominion attacked?
I don't know if anyone mentioned this but the only way the Dominion even had a chance to beat the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans is to trick them into fighting each other so by the time the Dominion decided to directly attack the three Alpha Quadrant powers a good percentage of their forces were destroyed and the Dominion was fighting much weaker fleets.
Weren't the Federation and Klingons fighting each other for almost a year before the Dominion attacked?
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
I don't think it was outright conflict, just the end of their alliance and the start of a brief Cold War. Remember the Klingons stand down at the end of WOTW.
But you're right about Dominion strategy-they were practicing the old conqueror's method of "divide your enemies, take them on one or two at a time, don't let them unite against you."
That's why the Dominion didn't want the Romulans to join the Fed-Klingon alliance-they were going to deal with them after the other two powers were defeated.
I don't think it was outright conflict, just the end of their alliance and the start of a brief Cold War. Remember the Klingons stand down at the end of WOTW.
But you're right about Dominion strategy-they were practicing the old conqueror's method of "divide your enemies, take them on one or two at a time, don't let them unite against you."
That's why the Dominion didn't want the Romulans to join the Fed-Klingon alliance-they were going to deal with them after the other two powers were defeated.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
That's very... Palpatine.
During the TNG/DS9/VOY era I don't think the producers were able to deal with the darkness of the Feds losing.
But NuTrek or JJTrek or whatever you call it... I could see them dealing with it. You know... everything has got to be "dark" these days, the darker the better, etc.
That's very... Palpatine.
During the TNG/DS9/VOY era I don't think the producers were able to deal with the darkness of the Feds losing.
But NuTrek or JJTrek or whatever you call it... I could see them dealing with it. You know... everything has got to be "dark" these days, the darker the better, etc.
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
I can't believe that Berman originally wanted the War to do done in a handful of episodes. How does that constitute a war?
I don't think it was wrong for the Alliance to win, after all they are the good guys. The cost of the war on the Federation is one thing that should have been shown though. Millions of lives lost, the fleet in shambles, but the Federation still needing to lead the way to help rebuild the Quadrant. The war was full of action, adventure and glory, a new series that dealt with the aftermath of such a costly war would have been great for character development.
Even if they had done a prequel Trek, why not set it onboard the U.S.S. Daedalus right after the end of the Romulan War with a crew made up of species from the newly former Federation. Grated it wouldn't be after the Dominion War, but it would parallel the rebuilding work needed.
Just my thoughts.
-B
I can't believe that Berman originally wanted the War to do done in a handful of episodes. How does that constitute a war?
I don't think it was wrong for the Alliance to win, after all they are the good guys. The cost of the war on the Federation is one thing that should have been shown though. Millions of lives lost, the fleet in shambles, but the Federation still needing to lead the way to help rebuild the Quadrant. The war was full of action, adventure and glory, a new series that dealt with the aftermath of such a costly war would have been great for character development.
Even if they had done a prequel Trek, why not set it onboard the U.S.S. Daedalus right after the end of the Romulan War with a crew made up of species from the newly former Federation. Grated it wouldn't be after the Dominion War, but it would parallel the rebuilding work needed.
Just my thoughts.
-B
Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler
I never thought of it that way, and the DS9 episodes were years before the Star Wars prequels.
I never thought of it that way, and the DS9 episodes were years before the Star Wars prequels.
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