Hmh, in this case I don't think it has to neccessarly mean anything with his standing. Keller is mostly too sly to admit something like killing someone, even when it's obvious. He never confessed raping and killing those victims before Oz, not even in front of Toby. I don't even remember what he was actually taken in for / if there was a crime flashback, I'll have to dig.
I think he confided in Toby about the killings, or at least didn't deny them. Toby knew about them and lied to Katherine McClain about them, which is what eventually caused her to break up with him. And after Keller killed Ronnie Barlog, Toby and he talked about it quite openly. It's a little twisted, but I think Keller liked that he could confide in Toby, and that Toby still loved him despite the horrible things he did. Which is kind of twisted... but there you have it.
I loved the way McManus said "I'm baaack", must've been really annoying but great at the same time for the prisoners
I loved that, too!
I was like, "Hell, yeah!"
Their jealousy issues were really something else *snorts* They're really like girls, insulting each other and getting intimate with someone else to make he other jealous, only it's waaay more serious here. xD
Yeah, I always found that amusing, and enjoyed that there were more layers to it than that. Toby was drowning in self-hatred over the death of his son and Keller was hurt by the fact that Toby thought he was capable of hurting him... all the while still obsessed with possessing him.
Clayton turned out to be really obnoxious. I liked his little crazy speech after breaking out though, he had completely lost it. Querns, I really disliked. xD I think the only ones I loved to hate were Adebisi, Vern and sometimes Ryan!
I hated Clayton right from the beginning--his attitude of entitlement never sat well with me. And then he was such an ass to everyone once he got fired from Oz and shot Devlin... ugh.
I don't know what it is about Querns I really liked--I think it had to do with the actor. He just had so much personality!
The opinions on him sure are! When I rewatched scenes on YT, there were some awful comments about how he's a little *** (insert any cuss word) and deserved what happened to him - even the first rape, apparently - and basically agree with Adebisi and the Aryans that the rape scenes are fun.
Wow, that's a little twisted... "fun"???
I'm not sure if it's true but I read that even Fontana found it partly funny and that's why he wrote that quote of Vern about how Peter should compare his size with Adebisi's (could be someone's personal theory on TOm's opinion... at least I hope so!).
That's probably dark writer humor. I mean, in a show that twisted, sometimes you've got to have a sense of humor... the commentaries are very irreverent, too.
And the other comments about him were mainly in the direction of "poor Schibetta" and "he looks gorgeous!", so the diversity was really strange to read. XD
Alvarez seems to be really popular with the fans, just like Ryan!
I kind of wonder where I fall in with the fans... I love Beecher and Keller, but I just can't stand Alvarez! I do like Ryan, though. Said and Adebisi are probably my other favs. And Vern, oddly enough.
Sexy is definitely the more fitting word to describe Keller than cute. XD Toby is cute, but just like with Ryan, the hype about him in fandom is so big that it almost annoys me by now! I do like both of them, but I don't think either is so perfect like many seem to picture them. It's funny how people seem to forget they're still capable of the worst deeds and have already committed them - of course, Ryan a lot more so than Toby. IMO, the show clearly shows that Keller is a criminal; a charming one, but nonetheless a murderer... a lot of people in the show condemn him for it, too. With Ryan, his nonchalant way of plotting and killing and always getting away with it unnerves me sometimes.
Some characters get over-hyped. I think Toby is kind of that everyman--that character we're supposed to be able to identify with. Everything Toby does in prison is kind of understandable and forgivable, more or less. The same isn't really true of any of the other main characters, aside from Said.
I know, I always dread the end too =( Though with how Oz went with season 6, I'm glad they didn't continue. I'd wish there was something similar though or a new Oz. XD (Prison Break doesn't nearly compare =/ )
Hell, I'd watch Keller run his laundromat and come home to Beecher every night.
But yeah, I hear you--eventually shows run their course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBCbT-ZfgTA this is my favorite part of Lee's storyline n DH
(the next part is too, even though it ends pretty sad for Andrew)
Oh my god, I totally remember his character now!
Hahahaha, that was soooo funny. I think Lee looks better with shorter hair though.
Bridal style? 8D *sigh* Too bad there's no more B / K =O I wish there would have been a time where they had already an established relationship and were happy, but there was always some trouble in paradise! THat's what made it interesting ...
Hell, yeah, bridal style!
I wish we got to see them happy more, too. There's one deleted scene in season four where they're just chatting in their pod (about Keller killing Ronnie, like they're just talking about how their days were!) and Toby kissing the back of Keller's neck before he leaves. There's a real sweetness to their relationship and their interactions that sadly you don't get to see too often.
Most of the scenes I found worst included the Aryans, like the betrayal in the gym, the gang rapes, nailing the priest, butchering the Muslim... and Robson's gums!!
Yep, exactly! They were responsible for the worst of what happened in Oz, it seemed.
I wonder how long we can continue to discuss the show until we run out of things worth discussing XD
Hopefully for quite a while!
Robson was in the "love to hate" category for me - he could be funny in his assholeness, and he was such a jerk that it was great to see him get his comeuppance
(does that make me bad?
)
Not unless it makes me bad, too.
I can't say I feel too sorry for him!
re: the Aryans
Ha ha, Stormfront - I've read some of their musings on Star Trek once, it's fun to see what people like that are thinking. I started liking the new movie even more after I read how freaked out the neo-nazis at that site were over the Spock/Uhura relationship. People can say what they want about ST09 and its supposed lack of relevance to the social and political issues - anything that can get Stormfront posters like that pissed off is great.
It was really fun reading their whining over the interracial relationships and Trek's "liberal agenda", and listing all the Trek people they thought were Jews. There's apparently even something called Jewdar?!
Back to the topic of Oz: There were apparently some neo-nazis who actually thought Schilinger was really cool.
I've read that J K Simmons said he would sometimes get approached by some people like that on the street - and he was shocked when, instead of just congratulating him on a great character and performance, they would say that Vern was a great guy and they agreed with his views!
So messed up... and I can't imagine how weird that must have been for JK Simmons, who probably strove to make his character well-rounded but likely didn't sympathize with his views at all.
I once read an Oz thread on some heavy-metal music forum, or something like that, that I found via Google search; and there was actually one "Aryan" guy there, who thought Vern was cool and kept defending all he did. I kid you not!
The only thing he really thought crossed the line was kidnapping Beecher's kids and killing Beecher's son, but tried to explain it away by claiming Vern wasn't thinking straight at the time and that he felt bad later.
Wow. That's just freaky and chilling. So it was okay that Vern repeatedly raped and tormented Beecher? It was okay that Vern gave his own son drugs to cause him to OD? Man... there are some people out there with really twisted POVs.
I think Keller is better-looking than Beecher. Beecher is cute, but Keller is handsome, and has probably the best body in Oz.
Keller is also sexy and charismatic, while Beecher is endearing and lovable. Peter is pretty - and not my type. Ryan is between cute and good-looking, but it's not his looks that do it for me (I'd prefer Keller and a few other inmates as far as looks go) - he is just so charming and sexy! And Adewale is actually... beautiful, but it took me time to notice that, since I just couldn't see Adebisi that way - his personality is likable in some ways, but also repugnant in many others! The first time I realized it was when Adebisi was getting sensitive
towards the end of season 2, and I can see it when he's not playing Adebisi. Said is an attractive man, too... Did I forget anyone? Oh yeah, Hill and Supreme Allah also looked good naked. Heh, Oz was such a sausagefest - literally.
Oh, I love talking about all the sexy men in Oz.
Beecher is my fav guy on the show--I think he's sexy, but not in an obvious way. One thing I find interesting is that a lot of times we see him through Keller's eyes--when Keller is looking at him obsessively. It's that "male gaze" thing that so many shows/movies use... and I think it kind of puts forth Beecher as an object of desire. But overall, yeah, Keller is definitely the sexy one there.
Supreme Allah is just beautiful. And I find Said extremely attractive as well. I can appreciate that Ryan is attractive, but he's not really my type. I kind of find McManus oddly attractive--I do have offbeat taste.
@Schillinger: Wow, that would really freak me out if I was JK Simmons. I wonder how he deals with it when people come up to him like that. I remember that Edward Norton on American History X was basically an *icon* to Neonazis, the film was really popular in their scene and deliberately misinterpreted (given the movie's ending, I can see how...)
No kidding! Those are not fans you'd want approaching you, I'd think...
Wow, and how did that guy justify all the things Vern had done to Beecher before? Given that Beecher hadn't done anything to Vern in the beginning.
Yeah, I can't imagine they're big fans of homosexuality, either.
Yay, let's talk about looks
I also think Keller's much better-looking than Beecher. To be honest, I wouldn't describe Lee Tergesen as good-looking, he's average IMO. But that's something that speaks for the actor, when you're intrigued by their character despite not finding them attractive (like with Toby or Vern in my case).
I think it's a big part personality, definitely, though I think Lee Tergesen has possibly the most adorable little snub nose ever, and very pretty blue eyes.
I think I once read that the concept behind movies with female leads is to make the (male) viewer sympathize with her and "build an imaginary love relationship" with her or something
I imagine that works in reverse, too.
And with Harold Perrineau, I liked him much better as Augustus than Michael in Lost, must be his style and the hair
Yes, character-wise I so prefer him in Oz to Lost! After second season, I really hated his Lost character.
I almost feel like those prisoners ranking the females! (Personally, I think Gloria was really pretty in the beginning! She seemed to gain more weight though and I didn't really like her face and appearance when I watched Dexter. Sister Pete is pretty, but I'd never like to see her in a sexual way like certain inmates xD And Whittlesey, I didn't find pretty at all)
Gloria and Katherine McClain were probably the prettiest, IMO. I like pretty much all the female characters, save for Howell... who is just one of those "love to hate" characters!
And there are also TV shows that I watch now that I don't want to fall behind on (like 24) so I mainly watch on the weekends. 
), Ja and the other Asian inmate, Supreme Allah, Chris Keller and maybe also Miguel and Augustus.
