Any other TOSers give up post-Abrams?

[Amaris]

And here I thought we could engage in an informative dialog on why you didn't like the film. Why it failed to live up to the ideas and heights established by TOS. We seemed to be headed in that direction just a few pages back. I'm asking articulation, not justifiation. As fans of TOS/Star Trek/Science Fiction aren't we capable of that?

Yup, we're gonna need a more detailed breakdown...

Time and time again I've said what I didn't like about the film, but it's never good enough so to hell with it.

If you like something than nothing anyone will say will dissuade you and that's fine. But to harp on that someone hasn't proved anything is bullshit. If it works for some, great. If it doesn't work for others, then also great. If some think the film honours TOS then bully for them. The ones who think the film doesn't do TOS service are no less entitled to their viewpoint.

Someone said it quite sometime ago, and it may have been CRA, come back in five, ten or twenty years and tell me this turkey still works.

I don't think I've ever read your reasons as to why. That being said, whatever reasons you have are perfectly acceptable for you and you don't have to justify yourself. It's only when people who either like/dislike the movie start making the claim that the people who dislike/like the movie are somehow inferior for it, or that they just like dumb movies and don't understand the complex stories of "real" Star Trek is when I get annoyed.

In fact, the only time I ever feel like correcting someone is when they say "this is stupid because" and the reason they state is untrue or horrible maligned. I mean, they're free to feel that way, but I am also free to correct errors in their reasons.

 

[Nerys Myk]

And here I thought we could engage in an informative dialog on why you didn't like the film. Why it failed to live up to the ideas and heights established by TOS. We seemed to be headed in that direction just a few pages back. I'm asking articulation, not justifiation. As fans of TOS/Star Trek/Science Fiction aren't we capable of that?

Yup, we're gonna need a more detailed breakdown...

Time and time again I've said what I didn't like about the film, but it's never good enough so to hell with it.

If you like something than nothing anyone will say will dissuade you and that's fine. But to harp on that someone hasn't proved anything is bullshit. If it works for some, great. If it doesn't work for others, then also great. If some think the film honours TOS then bully for them. The ones who think the film doesn't do TOS service are no less entitled to their viewpoint.

Someone said it quite sometime ago, and it may have been CRA, come back in five, ten or twenty years and tell me this turkey still works.

I wouldn't be asking if you had. You made some vague statements. Mostly things like "Its crap". You brought up that it failed to live up to the ideas of TOS. It lacked the "intelligence" of TOS. That nothing of TOS "resonated" with you in the new film. That none of the elements you "loved" in TOS were present in the new film.

All I asked for was an expansion of those statements. Because they are pretty empty unless you define what you mean. (As empty as you claim this film to be) So again I ask: What did you like abut Star Trek (TOS) and how were those elements lacking or absent in the new movie?

 

[Kirk1980]

Warped, April, anybody else who didn't like the film but wants to be able to rationally discuss it, give me a PM, maybe we can do something to maybe make this a sticky?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Rational discussion is good.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Warped wrote up a very exhaustive review of the entire franchise, which is really the best way to review the movie and why it doesn't work. The review is over twenty pages, so I don't think it's unreasonable that he might not be eager to repeat himself.

However, I'm sure if you ask him nicely, he'll send you a copy.

 

[startrekrcks]

wow that must be some review detailing everything.

 

[number6]

It's mostly hypoerbole and personal opinion. There are those who have elevated TOS to some kind of holier than thou higher artform than it was. For the most part, it was brilliant, in terms of storytelling. As far as issues of continuity, TOS was the worst. This was because it was produced as a weekly TV series, before there was any type of "story arc", befor there were any ideas of syndication and franchises.. They rarely paid attention when writing the show. Occasionally the actors would pick up on storylines that were being rehashed in the thrid season, but most of the time the production staff were fighting the clock and the budget just to get the shows made, little knowing we would be scutinzing and studying every frame of film shot forty years later.

IMO, no series or film bearing the Star Trek name has ever come close to repeating the mystique and creative spark of the original show, and while I have long accepted that, it has never precluded my enjoyment of the shows and films that have spun off TOS.

TOS was made in a different era. I treat it as such. It makes little sense to hold the other series and films to the same standard as TOS because of the era and circumstances. My expectations are not lowered, they are different and to imply otherwise is an insult to those who are fans of the franchise. That is all this thread serves to some TOS diehards.

 

[Warped9]

^^ In his opinion.

 

[number6]

^^Absolutely. I speak for no one else but myself. Just because you don't accept any Star Trek made beyond your scope of personal taste doesn't mean that others should follow your example.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This sort of discussions alway get me wondering why people are here. Do they want to engage in debate and discussion of Star Trek or are they looking for an echo chamber to validate their beliefs?

 

[number6]

This sort of discussions alway get me wondering why people are here. Do they want to engage in debate and discussion of Star Trek or are they looking for an echo chamber to validate their beliefs?

I suspect a little of both. I came here bacause I am a fan of Star Trek. I didn't realize how much Star Trek sucked until I came here.

 

[Kelso]

This sort of discussions alway get me wondering why people are here. Do they want to engage in debate and discussion of Star Trek or are they looking for an echo chamber to validate their beliefs?

I came to the Trekbbs for the chicks.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Quick, Kelso, look over there while I shave my beard, put on a wig and change my gender icon.

Ahem. Hi there, big boy.

EDIT: Seriously, though, have you seen some of the chicks who do post on this board (the strange quark comes to mind)? There should be a law against geeks looking that good.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This sort of discussions alway get me wondering why people are here. Do they want to engage in debate and discussion of Star Trek or are they looking for an echo chamber to validate their beliefs?

I came to the Trekbbs for the chicks.

Stop looking at beaker's avatar.

 

[Amaris]

If it will help, I'll list some of the reasons I enjoy the movie.

1) It Was Fun.
From the opening sequence to the closing credits, it was a blast all the way through. I had never laughed, teared up, gasped, for any other movie like I did with this one. I had a lot of fun. More than any previous Star Trek movie to date.

2) It Had The Spirit of The Original Series.
The original series had everything from slapstick to moral imperatives. The movie continues that tradition, and brings humor and warmth in the spirit of the classic show, without lampooning or disrespecting the original source material.

3) It Breathed New Life Into An Old Franchise.
I love Star Trek, particularly the Original Series. For me, this movie put a whole new perspective on some old friends, and it was fun to see them in their youth. It renewed the sense of adventure, of not knowing what tomorrow will bring.


Ruminations:

I loved the movie from start to finish. Were there plot holes? Yes. Were there scientific inaccuracies? Yes. Were there lens flares all over the place? Yes. Did I have fun, feel like I was part of a grand adventure, learn new things about my favorite friends, and just have a thrilling, exciting and breathtaking good time? Yes.

I) Plot Holes.
Every Star Trek movie and series is filled with plot holes. There are entire books dedicated to picking them out.

II) Scientific Inaccuracies.
Star Trek is well known for bending or outright breaking the laws of Physics, of making up new laws on multiple occasions and creating new formulas where in reality they simply wouldn't work as intended in the show.

III) Lens Flares.
Eh. Purely artistic. I didn't mind them, as I was too wrapped up in the movie to notice them. J.J. has already decided there were too many this time around, and the next movie will have fewer. So for those who didn't like the lens flares, there you go. They didn't bother me, though.

My overall enjoyment of the movie was based on several things. The characters felt great. These young actors did a fine job in making the effort to portray our beloved heroes without mocking or cloning them. Were they perfect? No, each one had his or her own eccentricity, but that's the spice of it all. If I wanted exact carbon copies, I'd throw a DVD into the player and watch one of the many episodes at my disposal. This movie brought a fresh, dynamic perspective to the characters, and I think this new generation of actors honored them and kept the spirit of Star Trek alive.

I am a great fan of Star Trek the Original Series. I know it in and out, backward and forward. I know it's characters, it's morals and ethics, it's messages and principles. What I saw with Star Trek 2009 was a real and genuine effort to encompass those same qualities from the original series, and I believe they succeeded.

 

[Warped9]

^^Absolutely. I speak for no one else but myself. Just because you don't accept any Star Trek made beyond your scope of personal taste doesn't mean that others should follow your example.

And no one said they had to accept my view. But what burns my ass is that posture that you have to validate everything like some scientific theorem. If someone thinks a story works for them then fine. But of someone else thinks it doesn't work then that should also be fine. But it doesn't work that way round here.

No wonder I don't post much anymore.

 

[Dar70]

I also did not like the new film. I gave it a fair shake but just didnt think it offered anything new to the table. I also think that by shoehorning this new universe along side the original universe was a big mistake. Why not just reboot the enitre franchise and be done with it? That way there would be no continuity errors etc. The fact that an alternate universe ,created by a destroyed ship, can mess with not only events, but ages of characters etc. was just a little too much for me. It was even far fetched for a Trek movie IMO.

I would have much preferred a reboot over this abonimation. I may have been able to tolerate it a little more. I find it funny that many of the things people complained about with Nemesis, are also present in this film.

 

[Warped9]

^^ It is a reboot no matter what anyone says--that was the whole point of the film. This nuTrek continuity has zilch to do with TOS. Indeed I seriously doubt the Nimoy/Spock we see is from the original TOS continuity but rather from yet another parallel continuity.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^^Absolutely. I speak for no one else but myself. Just because you don't accept any Star Trek made beyond your scope of personal taste doesn't mean that others should follow your example.

And no one said they had to accept my view. But what burns my ass is that posture that you have to validate everything like some scientific theorem. If someone thinks a story works for them then fine. But of someone else thinks it doesn't work then that should also be fine. But it doesn't work that way round here.

No wonder I don't post much anymore.

As I've said this is a discussion board. So I tend to expect discussion. I find the whys behind an opinion much more interesting than "I hate it! or "I love it!". It rather odd that fans of a show like Star Trek, which prides itself on being an intelligent show where ideas and opinions discussed and debated, would be so reticent to engage in debate and discussion about Star Trek. Have we become the very people Kirk would have shown the errors of their ways?

 

[DaveyNY]

The Age thing is pretty much a myth. Old man Bailey likes the film and do a few of his contemporaries. OTOH, a few of the whippersnappers hate it.

Though I hate to admit it, Old Man Davey (one of Baileys' contemporaries) likes the film also and very much agrees with your premise.