Any other TOSers give up post-Abrams?

[Santa Kang]

^^ I meant how the show was filmed as opposed to set and costume design. Mind you I think TOS' aesthetic could have been respected more even though updated for contemporary standards. In light of what we got in the Abrams' film I wish they had gone that route, but I think that's one of the least of the film's failings.

And what woud that asthetic be?
I'm not an expert, but I think different directors and different budgets brought different asthetics to TOS episodes. Plus TV and Movies are differnt mediums and require a different approch in they way they are filmed. The last thing you want in a theatrical release is something that look like it was meant for TV. (Which plagued several of the TNG movies).

 

[Brutal Strudel]

As far as the story not working, let's take the cadet-to-captain thing as a microcosm. TOS made it plain that Kirk, wunderkind though he was, had to go from assignment to assignment, up through the ranks, before he got to sit in the center seat. On a basic level of verisimilitude, this feels right and adds depth to the character of James Kirk, to the organization of Starfleet and to the often ludicrous universe both inhabit. Trek '09, by contrast, needed to eschew all that in order to give us an origin story that somehow ends with everyone right where we expect them to be right out of the academy. I loved the movie and I'm not buying it nor would I ever dream of defending it.

I will take issue with one thing Warped9 posted: in its worst episodes, TOS had no redeeming qualities beyond those embodied in the elements that carry over from week-to-week. At its worst, TOS was horrible. But it's setting a ridiculously low bar to say that all Trek '09 needed to outdo "And the Children Shall Lead" or The Final Frontier.

Lucky for me, I had fun. But I see very clearly why those who did not, did not.

 

[Santa Kang]

That's a criticism of the film I can agree with. Worst part of the movie for my money. I know why they did it, but it doesn't make me like it.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

We reach.

 

[Warped9]

^^ I meant how the show was filmed as opposed to set and costume design. Mind you I think TOS' aesthetic could have been respected more even though updated for contemporary standards. In light of what we got in the Abrams' film I wish they had gone that route, but I think that's one of the least of the film's failings.

And what woud that asthetic be?
I'm not an expert, but I think different directors and different budgets brought different asthetics to TOS episodes. Plus TV and Movies are differnt mediums and require a different approch in they way they are filmed. The last thing you want in a theatrical release is something that look like it was meant for TV. (Which plagued several of the TNG movies).

Maybe I'm using the wrong terms. The look of the sets and costuming suggested a sleek looking and very advanced future albeit from a '60s perspective, but that was the intent. I think TMP built on this idea although it can be debated whether one liked how that came off. Visually I think TMP is still the best looking of the Trek films and has aged the best visually--it still looks futuristic and in keeping with the idea of what the future should look like according to Star Trek. I think subsequent movies lost this to a very large extent and it didn't resurface until we get to TNG. But slowly with DS9 then VOY and later with ENT and the TNG films TOS' idea of the future disappeared. It became dark and cluttered.

The TOS bridge was a marvel of set design. It managed to look credibly functional yet it was not a cold and sterile place. With the right lighting and sound f/x they managed to fashion a welcoming and evocative atmosphere in what should by rights have been a purely functional operations centre. Like the design of the TOS Enterprise they managed to make something cool feel credible and right. I didn't get that at all with the Abrams' set design. The Abrams' bridge was a too brightly lighted sterile place with no feel to it whatsoever.

You're right that different directors brought different ideas to TOS, but overall I still think the show had a style to it in how its scenes were filmed. The lighting, the framing, those quick shots of someone manipulating controls, how the Enterprise was photographed, so many things that I feel challenged to explain what I'm trying to say.

 

[Captain Pike]

I think a lot of fans of the film will agree about the Cadet to Captain thing. I know I do. I still like the film a lot though, regardless.

 

[Santa Kang]

I'm a big fan the sets and models for TMP. It was a nice movie upgrade of the TV show. Never cared for TNG's bridge or the E-D. The Abrams bridge is growing on me. I like that it seems to be a busy active place rather than a waiting room. I wouldn't mind less lensflare though. I see some of the TMP asthetic there.

I think the quick shot of a hand on the controls was a way to save money because they could reuse it You can tell an early first season shot from a third season one by the way it looks.

 

[T'Grinch]

My biggest beef with the film is the cadet to captain bit. First of all, Pike should have never jumped Kirk up to First Officer. James T. Kirk was not George Kirk as much as Pike seemed to think that he would be.

Secondly, even if he *was* almost the same as (or better than) his father, he was still an unseasoned cadet. There was NO ONE on the whole fucking ship who could be First Officer ahead of Kirk? Hell, the entire damned ship would be ahead of him.

Then after all of that, instead of having the guy get more training, they make him Captain? With only the one bit of experience?

Criminally stupid. And, for me, totally unbelievable.

 

[startrekrcks]

do you have to be cheeky about the film, I think they wanted him to be captain at the end with his crew on the bridge what is wrong with that just answer me that.

 

[Amaris]

do you have to be cheeky about the film, I think they wanted him to be captain at the end with his crew on the bridge what is wrong with that just answer me that.

I can understand the sentiment. You see, it doesn't bother me because I knew they'd end up together by the end, and this was the way they did it. I would have hoped for a little more fleshing out before they did so, but since they did, no skin off my nose. However, it very much strains credulity. I think it particularly bothers people who love the movie, as people who hate the movie this is one more pin in the voodoo doll of J.J. Abrams.

For those who really like the movie, though, this is a rather large gaping hole in the reality of this movie, and it picks at you. Suspending disbelief is generally easy in a Star Trek movie, I mean we have warp speed, transporters, human like aliens, a total disregard for most physics and so on. There are a number of things, however, that rankle people. One of them is something that requires a leap of supposition to accept. In this case, the HUGE step from Lieutenant to Captain of the Flagship of the entire Federation inside of a very short time is one of those leaps of supposition, and I think it bothers most who like the movie because a simple "Two Years Later" caption at the bottom of the screen at this scene would have satisfied most. One little caption.

 

[startrekrcks]

I didn't mind Kirk becoming captain, JJ Abrams called the shots on what he wanted his version of Star Trek to be don't you think?

 

[Amaris]

I didn't mind Kirk becoming captain, JJ Abrams called the shots on what he wanted his version of Star Trek to be don't you think?

I didn't mind it either, and yes J.J. calls the shots on his version of Star Trek but that doesn't mean people must like it. Nicholas Meyer called the shots on his version of Star Trek, Leonard Nimoy called the shots on his version of Star Trek, as did Robert Wise, Jonathan Frakes, William Shatner and others on theirs. Each one had their own vision, and they were free to make that vision a piece of the Star Trek universe, but again, no one has to like it. J.J.'s vision happens to be highly enjoyed by most people, but that doesn't invalidate the people who don't like it or make them wrong. It's all subjective when it comes to personal taste.

 

[Warped9]

I didn't mind Kirk becoming captain, JJ Abrams called the shots on what he wanted his version of Star Trek to be don't you think?

Man I am so tempted to snap at this...but I'm going to follow the sentiment that if you have nothing good to say then say nothing.

 

[Gojira]

I didn't mind Kirk becoming captain, JJ Abrams called the shots on what he wanted his version of Star Trek to be don't you think?

I agree. While the cadet to captain scenario is implausible it really didn't bother me at all. I think the recent movie was very well done and a very good movie. I loved it and can't wait for more!

I still love TOS and other Trek series and movies. This movie didn't turn me off to Star Trek at all.

 

[Amaris]

I didn't mind Kirk becoming captain, JJ Abrams called the shots on what he wanted his version of Star Trek to be don't you think?

Man I am so tempted to snap at this...but I'm going to follow the sentiment that if you have nothing good to say then say nothing.

Nothing to snap at really. J.J. has every right to do his version of Star Trek, it's just that people don't have to like it. stratrekrcks seems to feel that one should simply have to accept the movie just because it's Star Trek and lots of people seem to really enjoy the movie, and that would be wrong. A person doesn't have to like the new movie to love Star Trek, and a person doesn't have to dislike the new movie to love Star Trek.

 

[Spider]

I didn't mind Kirk becoming captain, JJ Abrams called the shots on what he wanted his version of Star Trek to be don't you think?

Man I am so tempted to snap at this...but I'm going to follow the sentiment that if you have nothing good to say then say nothing.

Nothing to snap at really. J.J. has every right to do his version of Star Trek, it's just that people don't have to like it. stratrekrcks seems to feel that one should simply have to accept the movie just because it's Star Trek and lots of people seem to really enjoy the movie, and that would be wrong. A person doesn't have to like the new movie to love Star Trek, and a person doesn't have to dislike the new movie to love Star Trek.

There is so much out there that is labeled Star Trek I don't see how any one person could like all of it. I most certainly don't. It's like anything else, take what you like and ignore the rest.

 

[Gojira]

Man I am so tempted to snap at this...but I'm going to follow the sentiment that if you have nothing good to say then say nothing.

Nothing to snap at really. J.J. has every right to do his version of Star Trek, it's just that people don't have to like it. stratrekrcks seems to feel that one should simply have to accept the movie just because it's Star Trek and lots of people seem to really enjoy the movie, and that would be wrong. A person doesn't have to like the new movie to love Star Trek, and a person doesn't have to dislike the new movie to love Star Trek.

There is so much out there that is labeled Star Trek I don't see how any one person could like all of it. I most certainly don't. It's like anything else, take what you like and ignore the rest.

That is so true. I personally could never get into DS9 and I have pretty much ignored it.

 

[Kagan]

The JJ's story line and characterizations were difficult for me:

1. Everyone being peers from the beginning
2. Kirk going from cadet to captain
3. Spock logically/emotionally stranding Kirk on Delta Vega
4. McCoy as an "additional" character
5. Scotty written as a character from a Monty Python movie
6. Uhura written with a serious dose of unprofessionalism
7. Kirk as a lecherous womanizer...pardon me, this is based upon unsubstantiated TOS legacy
8. Spock as a vengeful SOB
9. Even Spock Prime was off his beam
10. ANOTHER time travel movie...let's see that's ST4, ST7, ST8, ST11 not to mention the flashbacks in other movies...
11. "Out of the frying pan and into the fire" plot pace is not sci-fi...is not Star Trek...even Star Wars slows down at times
12. Lack of any kind of research of the 79 episodes
13. The "camp movement" hasn't had it this good since Adam West and Burt Ward were Batman and Robin

That's why I had to tune out the story and just focus upon the special effects and other "wow's" that they wanted focus upon.

I can't give up on TOS, but I am concerned that this "reboot" will force conformity.

 

[Amaris]

There is so much out there that is labeled Star Trek I don't see how any one person could like all of it. I most certainly don't. It's like anything else, take what you like and ignore the rest.

Very true. It's why I don't like the idea (that has been expressed by some in the past) that only true Trek fans like such and such Star Trek episodes or series or movies.

The JJ's story line and characterizations were difficult for me:

1. Everyone being peers from the beginning
2. Kirk going from cadet to captain
3. Spock logically/emotionally stranding Kirk on Delta Vega
4. McCoy as an "additional" character
5. Scotty written as a character from a Monty Python movie
6. Uhura written with a serious dose of unprofessionalism
7. Kirk as a lecherous womanizer...pardon me, this is based upon unsubstantiated TOS legacy
8. Spock as a vengeful SOB
9. Even Spock Prime was off his beam
10. ANOTHER time travel movie...let's see that's ST4, ST7, ST8, ST11 not to mention the flashbacks in other movies...
11. "Out of the frying pan and into the fire" plot pace is not sci-fi...is not Star Trek...even Star Wars slows down at times
12. Lack of any kind of research of the 79 episodes
13. The "camp movement" hasn't had it this good since Adam West and Burt Ward were Batman and Robin

That's why I had to tune out the story and just focus upon the special effects and other "wow's" that they wanted focus upon.

While I disagree with many of your conclusions, you are still free to express them.

I can't give up on TOS, but I am concerned that this "reboot" will force conformity.

Why would this movie force conformity? None of the previous movies forced conformity, so why this one? In it's day, TWOK was rather flash/bang, even though plenty of people consider that it had a good story. Yet no one is forced to like TWOK. The idea that it would force conformity makes little sense.

 

[ncc-1017-e]

Pike would have been courtmartial along with Kirk and Spock in any service organization. Pike for being stupid and promoting Kirk to first officer. Kirk for being a dick on the bridge and Spock for not handling the situation properly, going off on some sort off emotional fit!