Any Love for Return to Grace
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I like it a lot. I thought the whole "Klingons are baddies again" thing largely fell flat in Season 4 (apart from in the first and last episodes, of course), but Return to Grace was the exception.
I liked the storytelling style lifted from old war movies, especially of the partisan/renegade genre. And it was quite clever to use that genre, and then go against its key convention wherein old enemies are united by a common adversary. If anything, Kira and Dukat were even farther apart at the conclusion of the story, exactly because they had learned so much about each other.
The Cardassian freighter was a wonderful addition to the Trek universe, and served this story well. And the BoP, crewed by old-school Klingons, was the perfect adversary. At last, a struggle that involved crappy old rowboats crewed by insignificant little people fighting in a forgotten corner of the universe's hinterlands over nothing more than petty revenge. That's how epics are really made...
That, plus establishing a child character as recurring in a scifi story. That always works.
Timo Saloniemi
The Cardassian freighter was a wonderful addition to the Trek universe, and served this story well. And the BoP, crewed by old-school Klingons, was the perfect adversary. At last, a struggle that involved crappy old rowboats crewed by insignificant little people fighting in a forgotten corner of the universe's hinterlands over nothing more than petty revenge. That's how epics are really made...
That, plus establishing a child character as recurring in a scifi story. That always works.
Timo Saloniemi
Yep, too bad they didn't do more with the Klingons in season 4, but it was still worth it just for RTG and the great interplay between Kira, Dukat and Ziyal. Season 4 generally didn't do many good things for Kira as a character, but her episodes with Dukat and Ziyal were a big exception.
Yeah, this is one of those episodes that I enjoy without necessarily being all that attached to it. Indiscretion is basically in the same boat, though this episode is a bit better.
All in all, it's a sign of how good DS9 is by season 4 that episodes like this one don't stand out.
As for Kira, it's true she experiences a bit of a lull due to the combined effect of Worf's arrival on the show, followed by Nana's pregnancy (I guess those are the reasons). Fortunately, that doesn't last.
All in all, it's a sign of how good DS9 is by season 4 that episodes like this one don't stand out.
As for Kira, it's true she experiences a bit of a lull due to the combined effect of Worf's arrival on the show, followed by Nana's pregnancy (I guess those are the reasons). Fortunately, that doesn't last.
"Indiscretion" and "Return to Grace" encapsulated one of the best things that came from making the Klingons temporarily the new bad guys: Our heroes were now actually allied to Dukat, which meant even Kira had to somewhat play nice. The added addition of Ziyal went a long way to humanising the character - it's one thing to hear him talk about his children (which was memorable, true), it's another for him to have one.
And yes, this is a pretty underrated episode. It's entertaining, it has solid Dukat/Kira material, the idea of them cooped up on a crappy ship is fun, and it introduces Damar. Not bad.
And yes, this is a pretty underrated episode. It's entertaining, it has solid Dukat/Kira material, the idea of them cooped up on a crappy ship is fun, and it introduces Damar. Not bad.
It also didn't help that they were making her into what was primarily a passive oblivious object of Odo's love and getting her into a relationship with a character who was, by that time, nothing more than a typical The Paolo so she could better serve the above mentioned role.
^ DevilEyes, you fiend! A TV Tropes link; hours of my life will be lost thanks to this! 
^ DevilEyes, you fiend! A TV Tropes link; hours of my life will be lost thanks to this!
All too true!Return to Grace is one of my favorite DS9 episodes mostly because of the interaction between Kira and Dukat with poor Ziyal trapped in the middle. The Groumall was a great little ship design and watching Bajorans and Cardassians cooperating to kick Klingon arse is simply delightful!
Plus it introducted Damar
I'd actually probably put it in my top ten, if I could count two-parters as singles.
I liked Pirate Dukat. He was my favorite Dukat, followed by Regular Gul Dukat, Crazy Dukat, Cardassian Dictator Dukat, Commandant Dukat, and lastly Religious Fanatic Dukat.
I liked Pirate Dukat. He was my favorite Dukat, followed by Regular Gul Dukat, Crazy Dukat, Cardassian Dictator Dukat, Commandant Dukat, and lastly Religious Fanatic Dukat.
Nice distinctions, but I must admit I'm a bit confused, which one is Commandant Dukat? Is it Dukat during the battles in the Dominion war?
Also, where do you place Prefect Dukat (from the Occupation flashbacks)?
Yes, but he has such a lovely voice.
I like this episode a lot. Very cool. Besides, any Damar scene is worth watching, no matter if he's leading a rebellion, firing weapons or picking his nose.
I meant Prefect. Forgot the right title.
Nice distinctions, but I must admit I'm a bit confused, which one is Commandant Dukat? Is it Dukat during the battles in the Dominion war?
Also, where do you place Prefect Dukat (from the Occupation flashbacks)?
Yeah. I've had more rants about this than I care to remember, so have many other people here.
Yeah. I've had more rants about this than I care to remember, so have many other people here.
Yeah, but you have to admit, Garak and Damar's plot was a most excellent consolation prize. It would have been more powerful if you replaced Damar with Dukat, but as is, it's not a total loss.
^I've always been of two minds about that. I think it'd have been great to see Alaimo's talents not go to waste, and to have Dukat again in the anti-hero role. At the same time, we would not have seen Casey Biggs turn a fascistic, murderous thug into a champion of liberty and a proponent for change.
But perhaps we could have had both--with Dukat planning on keeping power after the eviction of the Doms and Breen, while Damar realizes that the terrors of war and occupation are the inevitable result of the political ideals of the chauvinist and illiberal Cardassia represented by Dukat, and that the arbitrary rule of a Cardassian dictator really isn't very much different in kind than the arbitrary rule of Changelings.
Maybe instead of that kind of random guy, Damar could have instead shot Dukat.
But in either case, they all should have been more pissed at him about Ziyal.
But perhaps we could have had both--with Dukat planning on keeping power after the eviction of the Doms and Breen, while Damar realizes that the terrors of war and occupation are the inevitable result of the political ideals of the chauvinist and illiberal Cardassia represented by Dukat, and that the arbitrary rule of a Cardassian dictator really isn't very much different in kind than the arbitrary rule of Changelings.
Maybe instead of that kind of random guy, Damar could have instead shot Dukat.
But in either case, they all should have been more pissed at him about Ziyal.
But in either case, they all should have been more pissed at him about Ziyal.
Perhaps the famed Cardassian love for family translates to a profound loathing of bastards, meaning no spoonhead would ever have an ounce of sympathy for said deceased, and anybody feigning it while she lived would just have been humoring their boss?
Doesn't mean Kira couldn't have ramped up her 'tude a bit, of course.
Timo Saloniemi
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