Spoilers Anti-Romulan Attitude

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by The Wormhole, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There seems to be a lot of anti-Romulan sentiment being tossed around the Federation and Starfleet in Picard. The reporter questions Picard about the wisdom of lending aid to one of the Federation's enemies. Admiral Clancy states her belief rendering aid to the Romulans was wrong because they were the Federation's enemies, and she even points out that fourteen Federation worlds were so against helping the Romulans they threatened to leave the Federation over it.

    What's the deal with this, anyway? The Romulans fought alongside the Federation during the Dominion War, so an argument can be made that without the Romulans the Federation could have been conquered by the Dominion. Even ignoring that, there were attempts made between the Federation and Romulans to make peace as early as DS9 season 4 where the Romulans were attending a peace conference on Earth that got bombed by a Founder. And the there's Nemesis where once again the Romulans are willing to talk peace with the Federation, indeed Riker's first mission on the Titan was supposed to be spearheading the peace talks.

    So what the hell happened that less than a decade after opening peace talks with the Romulans, and a decade after the Romulans fought and died in a war for the Federation the Romulans are in need of Federation assistance, an overwhelming majority of the Federation and Starfleet suddenly have an attitude of "screw you, you're our eternal enemies" and are perfectly content to let all Romulans die?
     
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  2. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If the Federation believed (despite official reassurances) that the Romulans really did want to annihilate Earth via the Scimitar, that might have soured the Federation's attitude.

    There's every reason to believe the Romulans were successful in evacuating a significant portion of their own population, so it wasn't really a "Screw you" to all Romulans, just the ones who weren't able to save themselves.

    The U.S. was allies with the Soviet Union in WWII, and then each side readied itself for Mutually Assured Destruction not very long after that, so the Federation and Romulans being allies for a short time during the Dominion War wouldn't have overcome all the mistrust that had built up for so long.
     
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  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Except
    1) The Scimitar was crewed entirely by Remans commanded by a human.
    2) It was after this incident that the Federation and Romulans opened up peace talks again.
    A distinction without a difference.
     
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  4. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Definitely still wrong on the part of the Federation, of course.

    But that "human" was cloned by the Romulans to damage the Federation, too, so it's not like that would soften the news. Even if the governments started a dialogue afterwards, it doesn't mean their populations suddenly loved each other.
     
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  5. Paradise City

    Paradise City Commodore Commodore

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    Romulan society is a highly militarised, surveillance/informant state. We see from Centurion Bochra in TNG that's it adheres to doctrines of species supremacy as state policy. Some will be demobbed Romulan fanatics with a grudge so they are spooked by the image of them being invited into the Federation hinterland. The Federation also just been stabbed in the back by their own synths creating a crisis of confidence from this massacre and they've backed off inviting people that might very well be hostile as well. Given that Romulan agents are active in senior Starfleet posts, these fears seem vindicated on the show.
     
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  6. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Romulans were dicks for centuries.

    Old prejudices and biases are tough to break, even if things went ok for a little while. It could also be possible that those peace talks post-Nemesis failed, and some attitudes went backwards as a result.
     
  7. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Same thing we saw with Kirk and Klingons............let them DIE!!!!!!!!
     
  8. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it s actually kind of amazing how much Undiscovered Country DNA there seems to be in this PIC series thus far!
     
  9. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    I'm OK with that, TUC has always been in my top 2! :D
     
  10. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Guess it didn't take.
     
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  11. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can easily see what millions would say "let them die". That was Kirks first reaction to the Klingons after Praxis. The Romulan Empire is a violent, authoritarian tyranny and militarist imperial power. I dont want a Federation of Mary Sues who always do the right thing. It not only is better storytelling, but more realistic.
     
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  12. TPezz

    TPezz Commander Red Shirt

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    Here in the real world, the Soviets joined the Allies in defeating the Nazi in WWII. Without them, the war would have gone very differently. However, that didn’t change the West’s perception of USSR being the enemy, which lead to the Cold War. Anti Russian sentiment still runs deep. So I see no reason why a similar situation couldn’t happen between the Federation and the Romulans. Basically the Federation is the Allies and Romulans are Russians.
     
  13. The Overlord

    The Overlord Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Romulan Empire and the Federation fought together against the Dominion, so what? The US and the USSR both fought against Nazi Germany in WWII and still became bitter rivals after the war was over, why that be different between the Federation and Romulan Empire? The Romulans fought at least one bloody war against humanity, were the Federation's oldest enemy, with them launching several military strikes against the Federation (a warbird was attacking Federation outposts in Balance of Terror, Admiral Jarok was said to have committed massacres on Federation worlds in ''The Defector''). Styles was racist against Spock simply because Spock looked similar to Romulans in Balance of Terror, in the Drumhead Admiral Satie got a cadet drummed out of Star Fleet because that cadet lied about being half Romulan, do you think that would be an issue if there was not anti-Romulan bigotry in the Federation, why would he have to lie if that was not the case?

    Also in Nemesis, a Romulan made warship almost wiped out humanity. The Dominion War did not make the bad blood between the Federation and the Romulans disappear.
     
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  14. Beckerjr

    Beckerjr Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This. The Romulans joining in the Dominion War was simply a need. "The enemy of my enemy" situation. That's not going to change many years of a 'Cold War' situation that had existed before.
     
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  15. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Praetor Shinzon tried to destroy all life on Earth with a thalaron weapon barely six years before the Synth attack on Mars and the Romulans with just a few exceptions had been the bitter enemy of Earth or the Federation or both ever since roughly the year 2152 if we count humanity's first contact with the Star Empire in the Romulan minefield. That's about 233 years of pretty nonstop antagonism and suspicion permeated by two periods of isolation during which the Federation wondered what the Romulans were up to on the other side of the Neutral Zone, always on guard for a possible, aggressive and even warlike return.

    The fact that the post-Dominion War Federation still views the Romulans with a measure of distrust and even prejudice shouldn't be a surprise. Yes, they helped the Alpha Quadrant Allies win that war and drive the final nail in the coffin of the Dominion's plans to conquer our part of the galaxy but this is little different from the Soviet Union being our ally during World War II yet still being a totalitarian, aggressive power beforehand and a totalitarian, aggressive power after the fact. We didn't really trust them before 1941 and we sure as Hell didn't trust them after 1945. The Federation isn't all that much different.
     
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  16. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Certainly plausible that, once the UFP and the Empire were the only two big kids left on the block that tensions increased rather than decreased in the years following the war.
     
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  17. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Before the events of In the Pale Moonlight many Romulans were apparently fine with sitting around and letting the Federation and Klingons be crushed. The feeling was mutual if anything.
     
  18. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Edison was mad. Stiles was mad. Worf was mad. People are always mad at Romulans.

    I'd be curious what the layperson in the Federation knows about them. Were the attacks on Neutral Zone outposts in TOS public knowledge? The attempted genocide on the Founder homeworld? The Reman attack on the Enterprise in NEM?
     
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  19. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    This.

    The Romulans joined the war because they thought the Dominion had assassinated one of their Senators. It was purely for their own self-interest that they joined the war effort. It was clear from Vreenak's demeanor that the Romulan Government at that time gave absolutely zero shits about the rest of the Alpha Quadrant. Had Sisko not manipulated them, The Romulans would have sat out the war or at worst joined the war on the Dominions side when both the Federation and the Klingons had been worn down.

    Shinzon had the support of elements of the Romulan military and there is every chance that one of those supporters became the new praetor and continued to be antagonistic to the Federation in the ensuing 6 years.
     
  20. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Soviet union fought on the side of the UK and USA in WW2 and accounted for the majority of NAZI deaths.

    And the USSR and west became such great buddies aft.....o wait we had nearly 5 decades of cold war.
     
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