Babaganoosh said:
The Mighty Monkey of Mim said: Hell, NEM had Cadet Picard wearing a TWOK-era noncommissioned officer's uniform!
That's not inconsistent. Those uniforms of that era had identical uniforms for cadets and noncoms. Only the shirt worn underneath it was different (for cadets, red; noncoms, dark blue).
Saavik was NOT A CADET. She was a COMMISSIONED OFFICER.
These words have actual meanings. "Cadet" is a term used to describe someone who was a civilian before and is on their way to BECOMING an officer. A cadet has not yet seen any service.
I was a cadet once. All officers were at one point, BEFORE THEY BECAME OFFICERS.
All officers also return for training from time to time, as they go from one general level of responsibility to another. Note that Army and Navy rank structures are different... a Navy "lieutenant" is equivalent to an Army "Captain," and a Navy "Captain" is equivalent to an Army "Colonel." And a Navy Admiral is equivalent to an Army General.
Why did I point out those particular ranks, rather than ALL ranks? Because those are the ranks where you ARE REQUIRED TO RECEIVE ADDITIONAL TRAINING FIRST.
A naval Lieutenant will be returned to school to learn basic leadership, something that a junior officer would not be expected or required to exercise. And... GLORY BE... isn't that EXACTLY what Saavik was doing? The CADETS (wearing different uniforms) were being LED. Not by "Cadet Saavik" but by LIEUTENANT SAAVIK.
Yes, I know I've said this about a dozen times and have just kept having to repeat myself. But this is NOT accidental either in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" or in "The Wrath of Khan." In both cases, it's a LIEUTENANT (Kirk or Saavik) who is at the Academy, but in a position where leadership is being developed, not basic skills.
Please TRY to assimilate this piece of info, OK? Starfleet is closely patterned on the US Navy in many if not most ways, and the rank structure is one of the most obvious examples of that.
cooleddie74 said:
If he were on a training cruise on another ship and it stopped for brief R&R, yes he'd be allowed to crash and relax. We don't see any other ships at K-7 in the episode, but that doesn't mean his vessel and commander didn't come back a little later to retrieve him.
Nah, sorry, still not buying it. Assuming a cadet would be lucky enough to get time off from what must surely be a brutal and very busy schedule (how often do you think cadets at our own military academies get leave?), there's no way that he'd get left *alone* there.
Really? Gee, I'd have SWORN when I WAS IN THAT POSITION I got leave, and got to travel home on holidays... and that I DID travel in-uniform sometimes.
I take it you're not basing your assessment on any actual personal experience, huh?
I don't necessarily accept that this guy WAS a cadet, as I've made clear before, but at the same time there's no evidence that he wasn't.
This is the really funny (and sometimes, in extreme cases, very SAD) aspect of Trek fandom. We all think of this so seriously that we tend to build our own "fantasy version of the universe" inside of our individual heads, without any justification or support whatsoever, then react viscerally if anyone contradicts any part of what we've built up in there.
By the way, there IS another example of this uniform. But not the blue version. Go back and watch "Balance of Terror" and see what the commander of station #4 is wearing. It's the same basic fabric, but gold/tan. And he's no cadet. So, add that into the list of "sightings."
My guess? These uniforms were "test items" Bill Theis put together, and they decided that the material didn't look good on-screen, but they reused them several times anyway.
In-universe? Maybe it's an old version that just hasn't been replaced across-the-board yet (look at the US Army... some units still have old-style BDUs like I used to wear, but most have now transitioned to the new "digital BDUs). Or maybe it's a uniform specific to "ground duty stations" (as opposed to mobile craft)? Or maybe it's just a regular uniform variant (the military is full of those!).
Bottom line... there is NO REASON to conclude that this is a cadet uniform. But with the bit from "BoT" I think that there IS reason to conclude it's not "Academy-wear."
And certainly not in a dive like K-7. As Worf pointed out on DS9, most of K-7 isn't even habitable. Apart from the bar.
Any cadet lucky enough to get any kind of break would probably go home to his or her family for the duration.
All cadets get "some kind of break."
And if that cadet wasn't from, say, EARTH, he may have been in-transit to go back and visit his family.
All this "it's not POSSIBLE" stuff is just silly. WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING except that this was a costume hanging on one of Bill Theis's racks that got reused a couple of times which was different than the ones we're used to seeing.
However, based upon the BoT use of the gold variant of this uniform, I'm no longer as strongly in favor of this being the "cadet" uniform as I was before. Even given that, when Kirk (or Saavik) took the Kobayashi Maru test, NEITHER WAS A CADET.
