another new uniform pic
- Thread starter moonman
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Sure, or he was made of chocolate or had wings that we couldn't see. After all, we were never told these things weren't true, so they must be as likely a possibility that he's wearing a Starfleet cadet uniform of his era.ancient said:
For all we know Fake Finnegan was wearing the $250 Snooty Command-Track Frat team sweater.
Actually, I'd say that it's MOST likely that Finnegan was wearing a duty uniform that predated TOS, or that was specific to particular forms of service (for instance, it might be the "surgical smock" that predated McCoy's TOS surgical smock?).
We saw that uniform elsewhere (TWT as I recall?). So it must have still been an authorized (if not "current") uniform at the time of Tribbles... and would likely have been something you might expect a contemporary Finnegan to still be able to wear (or at the least, what he'd worn last time Kirk had seen him).
It's absolutely true, there's NOTHING to indicate that this was an ACADEMY-SPECIFIC uniform. In fact, based upon the age of the actor playing Finnegan, it seems remarkably unlikely that he'd have been playing a cadet (he might have been playing an officer back for advanced training, like Saavik or Jim Kirk when both were lieutenants, but he was NOT a "cadet" at that age!)
Still, the uniform we saw Pine wearing really does look very much like athletic wear. C'mon, guys, it's a freaking JOGGING SUIT!
We saw that uniform elsewhere (TWT as I recall?). So it must have still been an authorized (if not "current") uniform at the time of Tribbles... and would likely have been something you might expect a contemporary Finnegan to still be able to wear (or at the least, what he'd worn last time Kirk had seen him).
It's absolutely true, there's NOTHING to indicate that this was an ACADEMY-SPECIFIC uniform. In fact, based upon the age of the actor playing Finnegan, it seems remarkably unlikely that he'd have been playing a cadet (he might have been playing an officer back for advanced training, like Saavik or Jim Kirk when both were lieutenants, but he was NOT a "cadet" at that age!)
Still, the uniform we saw Pine wearing really does look very much like athletic wear. C'mon, guys, it's a freaking JOGGING SUIT!
When I first laid eyes on this photo, I thought to myself: "Is this a reimagining of the landing party field jackets worn in 'The Cage' ?" Something more sophisticated looking than the simple wraparounds with pockets and velcro from the first pilot, but serving the same purpose?
Basil said:
Sure, or he was made of chocolate or had wings that we couldn't see. After all, we were never told these things weren't true, so they must be as likely a possibility that he's wearing a Starfleet cadet uniform of his era.ancient said:
For all we know Fake Finnegan was wearing the $250 Snooty Command-Track Frat team sweater.
Um...I don't think that's an equivalent guess. My suggestion I think is just as reasonable as the 'standard cadet uniform' theory.
The dialogue again states that Finnegan hasn't aged, and there is no corresponding dialogue that Kirk saw Finnegan at any point past his days in the academy. There's also no reason to believe that the others we see wearing the uniforms in later episodes aren't cadets simply in the field -- there is no evidence of an age restriction to be a cadet in the TOS period or earlier.Cary L. Brown said:
Actually, I'd say that it's MOST likely that Finnegan was wearing a duty uniform that predated TOS, or that was specific to particular forms of service (for instance, it might be the "surgical smock" that predated McCoy's TOS surgical smock?).
We saw that uniform elsewhere (TWT as I recall?). So it must have still been an authorized (if not "current") uniform at the time of Tribbles... and would likely have been something you might expect a contemporary Finnegan to still be able to wear (or at the least, what he'd worn last time Kirk had seen him).
It's absolutely true, there's NOTHING to indicate that this was an ACADEMY-SPECIFIC uniform. In fact, based upon the age of the actor playing Finnegan, it seems remarkably unlikely that he'd have been playing a cadet (he might have been playing an officer back for advanced training, like Saavik or Jim Kirk when both were lieutenants, but he was NOT a "cadet" at that age!)
Still, the uniform we saw Pine wearing really does look very much like athletic wear. C'mon, guys, it's a freaking JOGGING SUIT!
I wouldn't say it's as reasonable as the most obvious explanation: Finnegan is wearing a cadet uniform.ancient said:
Basil said:
Sure, or he was made of chocolate or had wings that we couldn't see. After all, we were never told these things weren't true, so they must be as likely a possibility that he's wearing a Starfleet cadet uniform of his era.ancient said:
For all we know Fake Finnegan was wearing the $250 Snooty Command-Track Frat team sweater.
Um...I don't think that's an equivalent guess. My suggestion I think is just as reasonable as the 'standard cadet uniform' theory.
Entirely correct.Basil said:
The dialogue again states that Finnegan hasn't aged, and there is no corresponding dialogue that Kirk saw Finnegan at any point past his days in the academy. There's also no reason to believe that the others we see wearing the uniforms in later episodes aren't cadets simply in the field -- there is no evidence of an age restriction to be a cadet in the TOS period or earlier.Cary L. Brown said:
Actually, I'd say that it's MOST likely that Finnegan was wearing a duty uniform that predated TOS, or that was specific to particular forms of service (for instance, it might be the "surgical smock" that predated McCoy's TOS surgical smock?).
We saw that uniform elsewhere (TWT as I recall?). So it must have still been an authorized (if not "current") uniform at the time of Tribbles... and would likely have been something you might expect a contemporary Finnegan to still be able to wear (or at the least, what he'd worn last time Kirk had seen him).
It's absolutely true, there's NOTHING to indicate that this was an ACADEMY-SPECIFIC uniform. In fact, based upon the age of the actor playing Finnegan, it seems remarkably unlikely that he'd have been playing a cadet (he might have been playing an officer back for advanced training, like Saavik or Jim Kirk when both were lieutenants, but he was NOT a "cadet" at that age!)
Still, the uniform we saw Pine wearing really does look very much like athletic wear. C'mon, guys, it's a freaking JOGGING SUIT!
"There is no evidence" of ANYTHING, except the following:
1) Kirk's imaginary version of Finnegan wore it.
2) Some extras at DS K-7 wore it
(was it ever seen elsewhere?)
So, if I understand you correctly, you're arguing that due to the lack of any hard evidence AGAINST what you've concluded, what you concluded must therefore be true?
That's not how logic works. All you can actually say is that Finnegan MIGHT have been wearing Academy-wear. Not that he WAS wearing Academy-wear.
"Might have been"... not "was."
I'd be quite happy if they established, canonically, that it WAS the Academy uniform in this film. I won't be bugged if they establish something else, though. Because if they do so, they're not CONTRADICTING ANYTHING except for some conclusions that some of us have leapt to without sufficient supporting evidence.
Basil said:
I wouldn't say it's as reasonable as the most obvious explanation: Finnegan is wearing a cadet uniform.ancient said:
Basil said:
Sure, or he was made of chocolate or had wings that we couldn't see. After all, we were never told these things weren't true, so they must be as likely a possibility that he's wearing a Starfleet cadet uniform of his era.ancient said:
For all we know Fake Finnegan was wearing the $250 Snooty Command-Track Frat team sweater.
Um...I don't think that's an equivalent guess. My suggestion I think is just as reasonable as the 'standard cadet uniform' theory.
Why not?
My theory has always been that it was an Academy cadet on a training cruise or mission, and was enjoying recreation and R&R/shore leave on K-7 when the Enterprise and the tribbles arrived in that episode.
Nope, what I'm saying is there is no evidence at all that it's not a cadet uniform, but there is enough in the dialogue to conclude that we're seeing Finnegan as he appeared as a cadet in the days that Kirk knew him. Occam's razor. It's a cadet uniform. Even if it's not 100 percent conclusive, it's more than the speculation that the uniform is some other variant.Cary L. Brown said:
Entirely correct.Basil said:
The dialogue again states that Finnegan hasn't aged, and there is no corresponding dialogue that Kirk saw Finnegan at any point past his days in the academy. There's also no reason to believe that the others we see wearing the uniforms in later episodes aren't cadets simply in the field -- there is no evidence of an age restriction to be a cadet in the TOS period or earlier.Cary L. Brown said:
Actually, I'd say that it's MOST likely that Finnegan was wearing a duty uniform that predated TOS, or that was specific to particular forms of service (for instance, it might be the "surgical smock" that predated McCoy's TOS surgical smock?).
We saw that uniform elsewhere (TWT as I recall?). So it must have still been an authorized (if not "current") uniform at the time of Tribbles... and would likely have been something you might expect a contemporary Finnegan to still be able to wear (or at the least, what he'd worn last time Kirk had seen him).
It's absolutely true, there's NOTHING to indicate that this was an ACADEMY-SPECIFIC uniform. In fact, based upon the age of the actor playing Finnegan, it seems remarkably unlikely that he'd have been playing a cadet (he might have been playing an officer back for advanced training, like Saavik or Jim Kirk when both were lieutenants, but he was NOT a "cadet" at that age!)
Still, the uniform we saw Pine wearing really does look very much like athletic wear. C'mon, guys, it's a freaking JOGGING SUIT!
"There is no evidence" of ANYTHING, except the following:
1) Kirk's imaginary version of Finnegan wore it.
2) Some extras at DS K-7 wore it
(was it ever seen elsewhere?)
So, if I understand you correctly, you're arguing that due to the lack of any hard evidence AGAINST what you've concluded, what you concluded must therefore be true?
That's not how logic works. All you can actually say is that Finnegan MIGHT have been wearing Academy-wear. Not that he WAS wearing Academy-wear.
"Might have been"... not "was."
I'd be quite happy if they established, canonically, that it WAS the Academy uniform in this film. I won't be bugged if they establish something else, though. Because if they do so, they're not CONTRADICTING ANYTHING except for some conclusions that some of us have leapt to without sufficient supporting evidence.
My quip is that if we're going to hold to speculation as evidence, we might as well assume Finnegan had other qualities we were never shown . . . or that McCoy has webbed feet or that Kirk was a crossdresser. After all, nothing onscreen proves conclusively this isn't the case.
Oh, and the uniform, though dirty, shows up in "Arena" on the Cestus III survivor. Of course, there's no evidence to prove he was or wasn't a cadet (like Saavik) or by that point, the uniform had or hadn't become a part of standard service wear for special duty stations.
Even the uniform itself is sort of contradictory. Finnegan's Academy shirt from the early 2250s has a TOS-era black pointed collar. Starfleet shirts from the "Cage"/Pike period until "WNMHGB" had ribbed or soft plunging collars like sweaters. And cover artwork for those well-written Academy books and novels show Kirk and company wearing glittery Academy shirts with ribbed, soft collars. Not black ones.
I found it unlikely that a cadet would even get shore leave.
If he were on a training cruise on another ship and it stopped for brief R&R, yes he'd be allowed to crash and relax. We don't see any other ships at K-7 in the episode, but that doesn't mean his vessel and commander didn't come back a little later to retrieve him.
Wasn't the actual line "Who are you calling tiny?"
That's certainly camp enough.
That's certainly camp enough.
And even more humorously...it was aimed at the one actor who turned out to be gay. And who makes a lot of gay-themed penis jokes at celebrity roasts.
Are we actually arguing about this? Cadet uniforms have never really been consistent, when you think about it. They seem to change back and forth at various times we've seen the Academy. Hell, NEM had Cadet Picard wearing a TWOK-era noncommissioned officer's uniform!
This is NOT something to worry about.
This is NOT something to worry about.
That's not inconsistent. Those uniforms of that era had identical uniforms for cadets and noncoms. Only the shirt worn underneath it was different (for cadets, red; noncoms, dark blue).
Valeris in ST VI, on the other hand... that's inconsistency for you.
Nah, sorry, still not buying it. Assuming a cadet would be lucky enough to get time off from what must surely be a brutal and very busy schedule (how often do you think cadets at our own military academies get leave?), there's no way that he'd get left *alone* there.
And certainly not in a dive like K-7. As Worf pointed out on DS9, most of K-7 isn't even habitable. Apart from the bar.
Any cadet lucky enough to get any kind of break would probably go home to his or her family for the duration.
It's still inconsistent because that's not what he (or anyone else) was wearing in the "Tapestry" (TNG) flashback of his Academy days. (There's also the baldness thing, but that's not directly related to uniforms.
)Besides, as you can see from this page, every era has had a wide variety of differing uniform styles that were in use concurrently and changed relatively often. A prime example are the numerous, radically dissimilar admiral's uniforms we saw during TNG. Seeing something we haven't seen before in the new movie invalidates nothing.
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