Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unveiled!

[Timo]

Re: Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unvei

I'm not a great believer in Gene ever having had any vision, but I have to admit that power and weapons are somewhat overplayed in today's Trek.

Militarism, OTOH... That was always the carrying strength of TOS, the one thing that made the show stand apart. If there ever was any vision to TOS, as the synthesis of writer efforts other than GR's, it was the desire to do "military in space" right for once. TNG had a slightly different vision, perhaps something like "ethically sound corporation in space", and thus less in need of combat hardware. TOS would have been quite compatible with a space fightercraft, though, had one been technologically possible in 1960s television.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unicron]

Re: Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unvei

Patrickivan said:
Looks like something out of Andromeda.

Seems a little silly to have little fighters when there are phasers and photon torpedoes at the Federation's disposal.

Star Trek is really getting ridiculous with everything revolving around power and weapons. Seems no one is interested in anything except designs meant for battle and war.

Gene's vision is truly realized.

More advanced technology helps, but many of the tactics remain. As far as Gene's vision, it's hard to say because some of his visions were good but way too idealistic. Gene apparently didn't want Starfleet to function like a futuristic navy, even though he clearly created parallels in the organization. He felt humans would be above things like opportunism and corruption, which only goes so far. I think Trek humans have made a lot of progress against those things, but they still exist.

 

[Maurice]

Re: Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unvei

Unicron said:
[...He felt humans would be above things like opportunism and corruption, which only goes so far. I think Trek humans have made a lot of progress against those things, but they still exist.

Humans in general or those in this country? Because opportunism and corruption are, I would dare say, as common as ever today.

 

[Unicron]

Re: Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unvei

I was speaking of Trek-era humans. There are certainly some we've seen who succumb to greed (Captain Tracy in the "Omega Glory") or who take the wrong actions to protect the Federation (Admiral Leyton in "Paradise Lost"). So the humans we see are not perfect, and I don't think they should be. I think that's how Gene envisioned them though.

Just as the Feds don't use cloaking devices, which we've seen are a valuable tactical system, because Gene didn't want the heroes to be "sneaky."

 

[Arpy]

Re: Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unvei

My thoughts...

The question of "Gene's vision" is kind of a moot one. Regardless how much originated with him, it's taken on a life of it's own because it's a good one.

Looking at the venerable Andrew Probert's fighter, regardless if fighters are or aren't...uh..."kosher" with Gene's vision or the Trek Universe beyond it, this is a labor of love from the artist, and I for one am trying to appreciate it as such.

My personal thinking on fighters in Trek overall is that since the Enterprise is more the Napoleonic sailing ship than the WWII aircraft carrier, in the Star Trek Universe the lone starship must be superior to the the packed star-carrier.

Beyond that, by the time of the Trek future or its real world equivalent, I imagine pure combat being performed by machines stronger, faster, smarter and far less important than living beings. ...Non-sentient machines, that is.

In Star Trek, I imagine "defense probes" or "mobile weapons platforms" or whatever you want to call them being part of the defensive perimeter of a stationary target. ...Instead of sending three dozen piloted fighters to fend off a Klingon attack cruiser and the battle ending with the cruiser warping away and only one dozen fighters returning to starbase.

...So stick a Cyberdine Systems T-100 in the cockpit and we're good. Just paste Arnold's face on the Starfleeter in red.

 

[Data Holmes]

Re: Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unvei

We've seen cadets train in single seat fighter trainers at Star Fleet Academy. We saw two seater fighters being used by the Maquis in TNG and DS9. We saw "Fighter wings" used in the massive battles of the dominion war...

Fighters are in trek, Just like three and single nacelle ships and star fleet marines.

 

[Patrickivan]

Re: Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unvei

hutt359 said:
We've seen cadets train in single seat fighter trainers at Star Fleet Academy. We saw two seater fighters being used by the Maquis in TNG and DS9. We saw "Fighter wings" used in the massive battles of the dominion war...

Fighters are in trek, Just like three and single nacelle ships and star fleet marines.

Did they actually say the training craft were contemporary fighters?

Could the Maquis get their hands on anything larger?

What did the fighter wings actually consist of during the battle?

Let's be realistic, it's Star Trek- they don't waste people when they have drones that can do the job more safely. If you want more flashy space, one on one battle with hordes of ships, watch Star Wars. I do. It's great there and suits the world Lucas created.

 

[Timo]

Re: Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unvei

Did they actually say the training craft were contemporary fighters?

Nope. And military personnel today are indeed often trained using vehicles, equipment and tactics that they will never use operationally: sailing ships, piston-engined aircraft, even push-ups and special moves for raising and lowering flags.

Could the Maquis get their hands on anything larger?

They had a broad range of vessels at their disposal, eventually up to and including at least three examples of a raider comparable to the Defiant in size ("For the Uniform"), plus a large Vulcan transport ship ("For the Cause"). Yet during the formative months of the organization, they explicitly only had two of the Starfleet fightercraft type available ("The Maquis II", although at that time, the type was not identified as Starfleet in any way).

What did the fighter wings actually consist of during the battle?

Solely of the type seen in Maquis hands in "The Maquis II", explicitly designated as "attack fighter" flying in "attack wings". That doesn't sound as if the type would be intended for defensive duties or interception; a more likely role would be some sort of offensive maneuvering, perhaps usually against targets less well defended as starships.

Seeing those waves of attack fighters on their more or less futile assault against Cardassian capital ships reminds me of the old Swordfish biplanes trying to score torpedo hits against modern 1930s-40s battleships in WWII... They were used because nothing better existed at the time, not for the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm at least.

Perhaps the design envisioned by Mr Probert would have been the superior 2360s equivalent, cancelled when Starfleet felt confident that the possibly 2320s vintage attack fighter type would suffice for all anticipated conflicts...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Epsilon IX]

It kind of resembles the Romulan repair ships from Star Trek Armada II!

 

[regemet]

Re: Andrew Probert's ST:TNG Federation Fighter Concept Unvei

I think your fighters are the one thing sadly missing from the battle sceans in D S 9 seasons 6 and 7(Dominion war)