Spoilers An easy explanation for the klingon ship design in Season 1

[fireproof78]

Except TMP makes more sense because it takes place after TOS and shows a technological progression, while DSC shows that TOS will have a technological regression.

We see one ship and a couple of locations. I will not labor under the assumption that TOS's 70+ hours somehow revealed all of Starfleet's secrets. If not that, then it's a part of the duotronic computing system installed specifically on board the Constitution class ships.

If that doesn't work, then I'll go with GR's explanation that is was an in universe recreation of the Enterprise's mission.

This doesn't change my underlying assumption that the events of TOS occurred even if the precise details are not accurate. The characters are important to me not the technology.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Everyone was mad when the Gundams in Endless Waltz all had different designs in the flashbacks too. I was like, are you serious? These designs are awesome.

And that was my anime anecdote of the week.

 

[DigificWriter]

Then don't call the show a prequel to another show that was produced in the middle of the last century.

Don't dig a bigger hole for yourself with silly comments like this.

 

[fireproof78]

I find comments from the TOS writers bible telling in this instance:

Scientifically inaccurate. Wrong again; beware if you checked this one. Although we do want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of this item usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story.

Or this one:

Tell your story about people, not about science and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare never did a monologue about the theory of anes- thetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and dis- cusses the breed of his horse before he rides off on it.

Of note to me is the description regarding the computers, namely that they are an extrapolation of 20th century computer understanding.

The logical scientific extension of a somewhat bulky and limited computer of our own 20th century. Deep in the heart of the vessel are rows upon rows of "computer banks", in effect a giant electronic brain which runs our vessel, setting course on command, automatically maintaining it, operated the "life-support systems" which include atmosphere and gravity, warn and take action against unexpected dangers and so on. 22. COMPUTER (CONTINUED) Also, the computer banks of the U.S.S. Enterprise literally hold the entire body of recorded knowledge of the human race. The ship's computers can be connected into any intercom station or viewing screen and will (verbally or visually) analyze practically any known information in a matter of seconds. However, Mr. Spock's bridge position connects most directly and completely with the ship's computers.

My question is why should Star Trek limit its technical knowledge to 20th century only? Again, the idea of Star Trek as part of its conceit was an extrapolation of humanity's future, not just humanity of the 60s.

 

[Donker]

Fixed that for you.

'

the producers do.

Lol no, Canon is literally by it's very nature a fan concept. As I've explained countless times before, the entire concept of "Canon" comes from religion with literally just people throwing out and accepting whatever part of scripture or myth they wanted to believe, this is why you have dozens of different forms of Christianity, numerous forms of Islam, countless forms of Buddhism etc.

Canon is 100% a fan concept. You can see numerous times throughout Star Trek from TMP to Discovery, that the creators of the show, do not care about "canon" as much as the fandom. Most creators just want to tell their story in that universe and "canon" can easily be broken if it gets in the way of the story.

When CBS say "Everything is canon" then how do you square the completely contradictory information within Star Trek lets be real, every couple of episodes? You can't the entire thing breaks down. Thus Canon really only is what fans deem what is worthy enough to discuss and since we're all fans, really Canon literally only matters in what people here think is worthy of discussion.

You only need to look at the current Harry Potter fandom to see that Canon is literally not what the creator says and that the death of the author is a very, real concept. Star Wars as well, the entire fanbase has split and there is now literally two different "Canons" depending of what part of the Star Wars community you are in.

The idea that producers decide canon in any meaningful way is laughable nonsense and has zero basis in material reality.

Why not? Should a prequel only be done using the techniques of the the original show?

The problem really is that Discovery is just too different. Aesthetically to tone to "canon" it's just such a wild departure from what you would expect in that era of Star Trek. If Discovery was set during the TMP period, I suspect people would have far, FAR less issue with it from a "canon" perspective.

Also there is no reason they couldn't update the TOS aesthetic with modern technology, design and engineering without losing TOS design language. Honestly Discovery just looks frankly "bleh" from a design standpoint, it looks so generic and bland, literally look at scenes from Mass Effect and Discovery side by side and you can tell what was the major driving aesthetic influence on the show. (even the uniforms are almost 1:1 taken from Mass Effect).

Again as I've explained countless times, mid 20th century modernist design is still extremely futuristic and stylish by current standards, Ikea has built a global brand on it. It is frankly bizarre that they didn't even attempt to build on that design language for Discovery, I would assume it would be nearly every designers wet dream to do so.

 

[DigificWriter]

'


Lol no, Canon is literally by it's very nature a fan concept. As I've explained countless times before, the entire concept of "Canon" comes from religion with literally just people throwing out and accepting whatever part of scripture or myth they wanted to believe, this is why you have dozens of different forms of Christianity, numerous forms of Islam, countless forms of Buddhism etc.

Canon is 100% a fan concept. You can see numerous times throughout Star Trek from TMP to Discovery, that the creators of the show, do not care about "canon" as much as the fandom. Most creators just want to tell their story in that universe and "canon" can easily be broken if it gets in the way of the story.

When CBS say "Everything is canon" then how do you square the completely contradictory information within Star Trek lets be real, every couple of episodes? You can't the entire thing breaks down. Thus Canon really only is what fans deem what is worthy enough to discuss and since we're all fans, really Canon literally only matters in what people here think is worthy of discussion.

You only need to look at the current Harry Potter fandom to see that Canon is literally not what the creator says and that the death of the author is a very, real concept. Star Wars as well, the entire fanbase has split and there is now literally two different "Canons" depending of what part of the Star Wars community you are in.

The idea that producers decide canon in any meaningful way is laughable nonsense and has zero basis in material reality.

Everything you just said here is 100% factually wrong... but judging from your previous posts, that clearly doesn't matter to you, and therefore nothing that you say matters - or should matter - to anyone else.

IOW, what you think is irrelevant.

 

[Rusty0918]

Well, the way the Klingon empire was fractured and divided in houses, of course you'd get quite a bit of diversity in ship design. Re-imagining isn't always a bad thing. It all depends on how it's done. Not to mention of course we do wee the D-7 being designed in the latest episode, so there's that.

As with the "Mass Effect" aesthetic - that's an excellent aesthetic to go with. I like it better than the aesthetic they went for in ST09 and its two sequels (well Beyond gets an easy break).

 

[fireproof78]

Everything you just said here is 100% factually wrong... but judging from your previous posts, that clearly doesn't matter to you, and therefore nothing that you say matters - or should matter - to anyone else.

IOW, what you think is irrelevant.

In point of fact, without official canon any discussion would be rendered meaningless.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Then don't call the show a prequel to another show that was produced in the middle of the last century.

Exactly. They don't think TOS is believable so they've retconned everything about it. The look is gone, the specifics of all episodes ("Balance of Terror" etc) are gone. The character backstories have been altered radically (Spock's human sister). The terrible 60's sensibilities are gone (women admirals, Pike's sexism etc)

As I said in another thread, regardless of what CBS say, they're making Discovery like it's a prequel to a hypothetical modern remake of TOS and not the original 60's show.

 

[Timo]

...So, about that easy in-universe explanation for Klingon S1 ship design?

I say we saw civilian ships. I mean, only three designs of the Battle of the Binaries posse ever deign to wage the war that follows: the BoP, the generic flattened-gothified D-7 lookalike, and the wonderfully ornate Qugh destroyer. And of the rest, one is in fact not a design by these enigmatic and incommunicado Klingons at all, but from a manufacturer Harry Mudd also relies on!

Those folks who answer the call of the Light of Kahless do so with swiftness that suggests they didn't exactly come all the way from Qo'noS. Also, only a handful of types is represented; only a handful of Klingons talk with T'Kumva, too. Perhaps half a dozen Houses out of the full 24? Out of those, several only come to mock T'Kumva. The genuinely curious might have been the ones who weren't already on a war footing and were flying around in their civilian vessels.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

While I think that the number of ships duplicating the number of Great Houses is intended to imply that all were present. However "Great Houses" implies that there are also Lesser Houses and perhaps the traditional "D-type" supplier (which per ENT includes both D7s and BOPs as the D5 is somewhat of a hybrid of the two) was on the outs with Great Houses so wouldn't allow their ships to be used during the War built L'Rell's ploy has brought them back?

 

[DigificWriter]

Exactly. They don't think TOS is believable so they've retconned everything about it. The look is gone, the specifics of all episodes ("Balance of Terror" etc) are gone. The character backstories have been altered radically (Spock's human sister). The terrible 60's sensibilities are gone (women admirals, Pike's sexism etc)

As I said in another thread, regardless of what CBS say, they're making Discovery like it's a prequel to a hypothetical modern remake of TOS and not the original 60's show.

Why do you continually say ridiculous things that have no basis in reality?

 

[Timo]

While I think that the number of ships duplicating the number of Great Houses is intended to imply that all were present.

This is the logical assumption - but logic fails Burnham at the Binaries, and her jumping to this specific conclusion could well be taken as a cure example of further failure. After all, if there were 24 Houses present, why weren't there 24 Klingons communicating with T'Kumva? The whole point of coming would be to pay this holographic visit.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Well, the way the Klingon empire was fractured and divided in houses, of course you'd get quite a bit of diversity in ship design. Re-imagining isn't always a bad thing. It all depends on how it's done. Not to mention of course we do wee the D-7 being designed in the latest episode, so there's that.

As with the "Mass Effect" aesthetic - that's an excellent aesthetic to go with. I like it better than the aesthetic they went for in ST09 and its two sequels (well Beyond gets an easy break).

Maybe designed with an older famous ship design in mind...

Exactly. They don't think TOS is believable so they've retconned everything about it. The look is gone, the specifics of all episodes ("Balance of Terror" etc) are gone. The character backstories have been altered radically (Spock's human sister). The terrible 60's sensibilities are gone (women admirals, Pike's sexism etc)

As I said in another thread, regardless of what CBS say, they're making Discovery like it's a prequel to a hypothetical modern remake of TOS and not the original 60's show.

To be fair, these things don't match as historical details with Berman Trek, too.

While I think that the number of ships duplicating the number of Great Houses is intended to imply that all were present. However "Great Houses" implies that there are also Lesser Houses and perhaps the traditional "D-type" supplier (which per ENT includes both D7s and BOPs as the D5 is somewhat of a hybrid of the two) was on the outs with Great Houses so wouldn't allow their ships to be used during the War built L'Rell's ploy has brought them back?

The political landscape on Qo'noS might be constantly changing, depending on day or week. Perhaps it's the same with the "Great Houses".

And don't forget there was no central authority at that time.

 

[Timo]

Might be any Klingon ship starts out fairly plain, and then endures through centuries of refits, accruing Gothic ornamentation among other things. And any fresh start thus goes back to the roots and involves a fairly plain design that gets mass-produced - and in a war where losses mount, it's these fresh ships being lost, before they have time to collect fame and hood ornaments.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

Don't dig a bigger hole for yourself with silly comments like this.

I guess it’s a good thing then that I’m not interested in your opinion of my posts.

 

[Tuskin38]

the specifics of all episodes are gone.

I don’t agree.

 

[fireproof78]

Exactly. They don't think TOS is believable so they've retconned everything about it. The look is gone, the specifics of all episodes ("Balance of Terror" etc) are gone. The character backstories have been altered radically (Spock's human sister). The terrible 60's sensibilities are gone (women admirals, Pike's sexism etc)

There is a lot of assumptions in here regarding the production team's state of mind.

And I do not see how the "specific of all episodes" are gone. There is room for both, to my view.

But, different strokes and all that.

 

[DaveyNY]

I consider everything we've seen in DISCOVERY so far to be ADDITIONS to the Trekverse, not Alterations.
YMMV

 

[fireproof78]

I consider everything we've seen in DISCOVERY so far to be ADDITIONS to the Trekverse, not Alterations.
YMMV

Same here.