An analysis of The Klingon Empire in Star Trek: Discovery's era

[cultcross]

Maybe then the Romulans, if they appear at all, can be the enemy that is an unrepentant fascistic state, if they take the Klingons in the direction you indicate. I might write an analysis of what I think they are up to during DSC, but it might be a little useless since we don't know that they will even be in Discovery (i.e. due to Tokugawa-like isolationism). Romulus is after all based on Rome (with hints of Germany, Japan and China depending on the era), and the "fasces" was a Roman symbol. I've always imagined them as being very ethnocentric and basically an "imperial democracy", similar to the Roman Republic, that has to justify all it's aggression on the basis of national security - it makes imperialism more complex and entertaining when the state must justify itself to a senate, in terms of profitability, security, survival, suffering - the Klingons being gung ho for conquest to begin with might not need to.

I think the established nature of the Romulans, especially their obsession with national security, and the 'thought police' structure of their society in which one ultimately answers to the Tal Shiar who know everything about everyone, translates in a contemporary context to the question of security versus freedom, and the legitimacy or otherwise of a state spying on its people. Perhaps we see the Romulans threatened by some external force with the ability to infiltrate their society and they react by developing this deeply paranoid culture?

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

@cultcross I remember some people on the forum speculated maybe the Federation will do something in Discovery that might provoke the Romulan attack ten years later - like maybe try to launch a mission to sabotage rumors of a functional invisibility screen. That could be an interesting way to feature the Romulans while keeping the isolationism intact. Think it was in response to the news that Balance of Terror would be an inspiration

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

Klingon ships over the years:

Raptor class scout ship (22nd century)

Early bird-of-prey (22nd century)

Scout ship (22nd century)

Transport ship (22nd century)

Transport ship (22nd century)

D4 class battle-cruiser (22nd century) [non-canonical... thanks to producers]

D5 class battle-cruiser (22nd century, 23rd century)

D6 class battle-cruiser (22nd century, 23rd century) [non-canonical... nice transition design]

D7 class battle-cruiser - k't'inga variant (22nd century, 23rd century, 24th century)

D7 class battle-cruiser - TOS variant (23rd century)

D4 class bird-of-prey (23rd century) [Kelvin timeline]

D7 class ??? warbird (23rd century) [Kelvin timeline]

D12 / b'rel / k'vort class bird-of-prey (23rd century, 24th century)

Vor'cha class attack cruiser (24th century)

Transport ship (24th century)

Negh'var class dreadnought (24th century)

 

[Longinus]

I think the Prime Universe* Klingon design lineage pretty good and believable, especially if you ignore the K't'inga in ENT. (And I will, even the producers said it was a mistake. I will treat it as those E-2 Hawkeyes in the Pearl Harbor film, as a production error.)

(* not enough datapoints to reasonably asses the Kelvinverse lineage.)

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

The D4 is certainly canon… in my headcanon that is!

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

@Longinus @Captain of the USS Averof - Unfortunately since I have been conditioned to accept what is on screen as the Okuda Encyclopedia canon, I cannot unsee that k't'inga. So the best I can do is reason it was refitted..... a lot..... for 225 years..... and was originally an experimental 22nd century design.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

The way I reasoned it out is like this - the D7 battle cruiser is like the different sub-classes of a submarine or plane or ship or gun - the basic design was introduced as an experimental concept in the old colonial era, then an updated D7 was introduced in Kirk's era to counter the Constitution class, then a newer variant using a space-frame more similar to the original was introduced in TMP - and perhaps more after - that's the only way I can think of to make the on-screen appearance in ENT a little more believable:

D7 - design variant 1 (aquamarine nacelles, dark hull):

D7 - design variant 2 (solid nacelles, light hull) [since this one was built differently it was never refit]:

D7 - design variant 3 (solid nacelles, dark hull):

D7 - design variant 4 (cyan nacelles, light hull):

I know in the past most people have tended to separate the k't'inga class from the D7 class, but I suggest that the TOS D7 was a subclass of the k't'inga, a very different variant that only served briefly, like the Navy/carrier version of a Air Force plane is sometimes quite different. I propose that the last couple may have served side by side, to explain why both the solid black and cyan light k't'ingas appeared in the TNG era.

But a starship isn't a plane, so I wouldn't endorse this kind of thing too much in Star Trek, like the idea of sub-classes of Constitution that conveniently bridge the gap between the TOS Enterprise and TMP Enterprise are not necessary.

Here is design variant 4 at the Battle of Deep Space 9 (firing a cool ass disruptor beam):

Design variant 3 appearing in The Next Generation:

Design variant 1 appearing in Voyager (after a decades long multi-generational voyage):

Possible fifth variant from Trials and Tribble-ations:

Also while we are talking about Klingon ships, its interesting to note that the Klingons, Romulans and Orions call use bird motifs and green hulls, and all are in close proximity to one another - in my head canon, there has been a shared material culture in this area of space for some time before the Federation:

Orion interceptors:

Romulan birds-of-prey:

 

[David.Blue]

One thing I find particularly useful in reading this thread is resisting the urge for homogeny. The Klingons are the sentient species native (evidently) to the planet Qo'noS. Using our own world as a template, it seems certain they must have had considerable diversity in the past. There must have been pacifist Klingons, shepherd Klingons, the equivalent of Tibetan Monk Klingons, religions that promoted Klingon sacrifice while others urged contemplation and escape from the world. Imagine the equivalent of the Klingon Versailles for example!

All the Klingons we've seen fall (very) generally into an imperial military society. But we've only seen a few hundred, whereas the race itself must number in the billions! As far as Qo'noS goes, mostly we've only ever seen the capital city and heard a few references to a few locations. A very few. Again, comparing it to Earth, it could be as if we'd seen London several times and heard folks mention the highlands of Scotland as well as Stonehenge. Which would give no clue at all as to places like Tokyo, India, Australia, Siberia, Texas, etc.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if prior to the destruction of Praxis, Qo'noS was home to numerous cultures that bore little resemblance to the Klingons we know. Possibly agitation by such led to the more overtly severe regime of the TOS era. Maybe Gorkon's first great reforms were to successfully pacify those cultures, and his efforts to save them gave great prestige to the culture he himself represented--which might resemble something like a cross between the aristocracy of the UK, the officer class of Prussia and the Samurai of Japan.

Just thing of stuff off the top of my head.

 

[cultcross]

I happened to watch Apocalypse Rising yesterday and if there ever was an episode to back up the idea of the Klingon warrior class as an old English aristocratic court, obsessed with glory, great deeds and chivalry, it's that one. It's hard to imagine the Klingons we see in the Hall of Warriors ever holding down a factory job or cleaning, or tinkering with the shield emitters or the myriad of other tasks necessary to run the Empire. What we see is a caricatured version of the court of Edward III or some other mediaeval king with the women turned into knights as well.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

I was just looking at the supposed Klingon photo again, and was thinking that I can't really see these three actors being cast in makeup that obscuring - it would render them totally unrecognizable - and it seems to me as though they have been selected because they could all convincingly look like TOS or TNG Klingons - Mary Chieffo has a slight resemblance to Kang's wife Mara, or Vixis from ST5.

I do think there is something more going on here, and that maybe the Klingon regular cast members will look more like the images above. Perhaps the Klingons (if that is what they are), in the picture represent a particular sub-group of Klingon, from another time or place, or perhaps who serve as enlisted crew on a ship captained by the more recognizable Klingon - it's just that Star Trek has always tried to keep the makeup of major races away from actor's faces so that they can act, display expression, etc - and also I guess so that actors can still get face/name recognition.

 

[Annorax849]

Good analysis, also keep in mind (maybe you did and I missed it) how the Klingon lawyer in ENT said howd there was a significant change and increase in corruption around 20 years before the episode, which would mean there was a shift in the early 2130s, as well. While there's no canon source of when the Empire became an interstellar power, I do wonder what it was like during the centuries before ENT. A less corrupt version of what we see in the 2150s? Did a living Emperor make a big difference?

 

[RAMA]

I find it highly amusing that fans are so neurotic about "canon". Just because the TOS D7 is on screen doesn't mean we have to accept it exactly as is. With STTMP we were supposed to accept that with a larger budget, the D7 and Klingons ALWAYS should have looked that. I believe Roddenberry made a quote to that effect. Nope, fans had to know why there were no ridges. They even wound up writing an explanation in episodes even though it needed no explanation. To me, the movie and TOS D7 is the same damn ship, end of story.

RAMA

Klingon ships over the years:

Raptor class scout ship (22nd century)

Early bird-of-prey (22nd century)

Scout ship (22nd century)

Transport ship (22nd century)

Transport ship (22nd century)

D4 class battle-cruiser (22nd century) [non-canonical... thanks to producers]

D5 class battle-cruiser (22nd century, 23rd century)

D6 class battle-cruiser (22nd century, 23rd century) [non-canonical... nice transition design]

D7 class battle-cruiser - k't'inga variant (22nd century, 23rd century, 24th century)

D7 class battle-cruiser - TOS variant (23rd century)

D4 class bird-of-prey (23rd century) [Kelvin timeline]

D7 class ??? warbird (23rd century) [Kelvin timeline]

D12 / b'rel / k'vort class bird-of-prey (23rd century, 24th century)

Vor'cha class attack cruiser (24th century)

Transport ship (24th century)

Negh'var class dreadnought (24th century)

 

[urbandk]

I find it highly amusing that fans are so neurotic about "canon". Just because the TOS D7 is on screen doesn't mean we have to accept it exactly as is. With STTMP we were supposed to accept that with a larger budget, the D7 and Klingons ALWAYS should have looked that. I believe Roddenberry made a quote to that effect. Nope, fans had to know why there were no ridges. They even wound up writing an explanation in episodes even though it needed no explanation. To me, the movie and TOS D7 is the same damn ship, end of story.

RAMA

Agree with RAMA 100%. Thought the whole augment ENT story was a waste and travesty at the time. Still think so. Part of the fun is using your imagination to fill in the gaps, to make the universe come to life. I enjoyed the slight inside joke aspects of the mirror mirror ENT escapade on a constitution class, or the trials and tribble-ations retro DS9 action, but once you start to try to explain why things are made of cardboard, the whole thing falls apart.

It underestimates viewers/fans' ability to suspect disbelief and just enjoy the show. Kinda why "canon" such as it is should inform stories and keep things consistent to a certain extent but should not be viewed as sacrosanct, which causes the whole enterprise (sorry) to become stereotyped and stale.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

Goodbye to the lovely D7 - I will miss you. Let's hope the new Klingon ships look nice.

 

[Tuskin38]

Well that giant ship with the red engines appears to be loosely based off the shape of the D7

 

[BillJ]

Goodbye to the lovely D7 - I will miss you. Let's hope the new Klingon ships look nice.

I don't know? Not sure I saw a reason to redesign the Klingon ships. But it is their ballgame now, might as well see where it goes.

 

[Michael]

Like the new Klingon ships or not, they certainly do look much more believable as truly alien ships. They are so intricate that I can't even make out their shape. I think that's interesting about them. They do look “ugly”, too. But I'm sure that's done on purpose.

After seeing the concept art for the Klingon ships on this show I always assumed they were different concepts for the same ship. Looking at the trailer now they seem to have realized ALL of these concepts.