Alley on not doing Trek III

[Khan 2.0]

Alley tweeted recently after she was criticized over 'Dr' Spock:

To set the record straight : I was offered the role of Savvik in the next film also.I declined due to a work conflict..
https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/status/572432736654245888

Pity it didn't happen as III would've felt even more of a sequel to 'Khan' ..and then she'd have done IV and maybe Savvik would've been in VI instead of Valeris (Shatner/Nimoy/Alley/Meyer again like TWOK: part 2)

Can totally picture her in III how she looked in 1984s Runaway with the long perm hair (similar to Curtis in III)
http://cineplex.media.baselineresearch.com/images/261767/261767_large.jpg

(someone should do some manips of Alley as Savvik in III)

 

[2takesfrakes]

Kirstie Alley was exceptionally gorgeous and talented. However, Saavik as scripted in THE SEARCH for SPOCK was so thin a character that it might've gone against the movie by using her, again, for being so underutilised. And I definitely would not have seen her showing up for STAR TREK IV, just to stand on a platform for 20 seconds. No, it was better not having her reprise the role. But Robin Curtis should've played another Vulcanian, or someone else, entirely ...

 

[Khan 2.0]

Er Savvik had a big role in III did she not? her and David were on screen just as much as Kirk, bones and Kruge, and she basically nurtured/protected Spock throughout the film

Maybe Savvik wouldve gone back to 1986 if it'd been Alley (bet shed have bailed for V though!)

 

[2takesfrakes]

Savvik was around in TSFS quite a bit, yes, but her biggest contribution to the movie was the finger-sex scene with Spock-in-Heat. Otherwise, she did not contribute anything of particular interest, aside from berating David and announcing to Kirk that his son had expired. The rest of the time, she was just set dressing. Nothing more & nothing less ...

 

[Therin of Andor]

Alley tweeted recently after she was criticized over 'Dr' Spock

IIRC, it was a stage play of "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" that came between Alley and more Trek. Remember that ST II was Alley's first job in Hollywood, so being offered the lead female role in an important play was a very good thing for her CV. More prestigious and of long-term benefit than a sequel to a SF movie (and a very low contractual offer).
http://www.lifeofanactor.com/Cat1983.htm

But people forget that Alley did play Saavik one more time after ST II: in a stage play, "The Machiavellian Principle", written by Walter Koenig, and performed at a convention called "Ultimate Fantasy" (later branded "Ultimate Fiasco" or "The Con of Wrath" by angry fans, who realised the organisers of the convention were out of their depth and had undersold a huge arena and had skippred town. James Doohan rallied the troops and the play went ahead for the smaller-than-expected number of fans who actually attended).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saavik#Other_appearances_and_Next_Generation_continuity

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Savvik was around in TSFS quite a bit, yes, but her biggest contribution to the movie was the finger-sex scene with Spock-in-Heat. Otherwise, she did not contribute anything of particular interest, aside from berating David and announcing to Kirk that his son had expired. The rest of the time, she was just set dressing. Nothing more & nothing less ...

I agree with this. But I think that's also true of most of the roles in the film outside of Kirk and, to a lesser extent, David. I hate to put it this way, but Harve Bennett's script is very mechanical; the roles exist to enable Kirk to get into place for Spock to be resurrected or for the audience to understand what's going on. Saavik is, basically, a walking infodump.

Maybe Saavik wouldve gone back to 1986 if it'd been Alley (bet she'd have bailed for V though!)

Star Trek IV writes her out with a minimum of fuss, but in recent years I've wondered what the film would have been like if she, too, were on the Bounty in 1986. If Alley had been in two films, Bennett and Meyer might've felt they needed to continue with the character in a third.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Alley tweeted recently after she was criticized over 'Dr' Spock:

To set the record straight : I was offered the role of Savvik in the next film also.I declined due to a work conflict..
https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/status/572432736654245888

Pity it didn't happen as III would've felt even more of a sequel to 'Khan' (and then she'd have done IV and maybe Savvik would've been in VI instead of Valerus)

So what exactly was the work conflict? When this first happened, I remember reading articles where Kirstie Alley said she turned down the role because she felt Saavik played a bigger part in ST:III but she was offered less money than what she got in ST:II.

 

[Mojochi]

lol I didn't even know about her twitter flub. Maybe she should've done a couple more films just to get the damn names right. Hahaha

 

[Therin of Andor]

So what exactly was the work conflict?

As I posted earlier, it was a stage play of "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" that came between Alley and more Trek.
http://www.lifeofanactor.com/Cat1983.htm

When this first happened, I remember reading articles where Kirstie Alley said she turned down the role because she felt Saavik played a bigger part in ST:III but she was offered less money than what she got in ST:II.

We had Bjo Trimble at an Aussie convention around the time that rumours were breaking about ST III and she was quick to defend Kirstie Alley's choices. Contractually, Paramount had to make Alley's agent an offer on ST III, but it was supposedly insultingly low ('because sequels make less money"). The agent counter-offered a much larger amount, but Paramount never came back to negotiate. The agent had rejected the initial offer and so the contract was fulfilled.

When fans in the audience were angry that Alley had seemingly "turned her back on the movie that had made her a star", Ms Trimble reminded them that being offered the lead female role in an important stage play, at this early point in Alley's career, was a very good thing for her CV. More prestigious, and of long-term benefit, than a supporting role in a sequel to a SF movie.

And so Director Nimoy went off in search of a new Saavik - and even told Robin Curtis that she should not watch Alley's ST II performance to prepare for the role.

 

[Mudd]

Bennett and Nimoy took some pains in ST III to demolish the new characters that had been successfully introduced in TWOK. That made somebody happy...

 

[eyeresist]

The producers were fools for not including a "sequel" clause in Alley's TWOK contract.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The producers were fools for not including a "sequel" clause in Alley's TWOK contract.

There was. It was a standard clause that stated that Paramount had to make her a pay offer if ST III was to go ahead. They did. The agent counter-offered. Normally Paramount would counter counter-offer with something agreeable to all, but Paramount was not interested in negotiating.

(Always seemed to me that they wanted the chance to re-envisage the character. Maybe someone was worried that Saavik was too popular, and could easily become the popular resident Vulcan if Spock stayed away/dead? That's certainly why Xon and Saavik were conceived.)

If you were around at the time, every ST film was assumed to be "the last one", but there were still standard "make an offer on a sequel" clauses in everyone's contracts. And then it would be tightened with a new contract. No one was signed to a string of pictures, unlike today.

 

[Timewalker]

Er Savvik had a big role in III did she not? her and David were on screen just as much as Kirk, bones and Kruge, and she basically nurtured/protected Spock throughout the film

Maybe Savvik wouldve gone back to 1986 if it'd been Alley (bet shed have bailed for V though!)

They already had one character who needed to hide the pointed ears. What could Saavik have done there that Spock or the others could not do?

And so Director Nimoy went off in search of a new Saavik - and even told Robin Curtis that she should not watch Alley's ST II performance to prepare for the role.

Maybe if he hadn't done that, her performance would have come across as something more appealing than a piece of cardboard.


It's just as well that Saavik wasn't in The Undiscovered Country. Yeah, it makes Spock look like a bit of a fool not to suspect his protegee was a traitor, but at least it wasn't a character that most of the movie fans liked (whichever version).

 

[eyeresist]

The producers were fools for not including a "sequel" clause in Alley's TWOK contract.

There was. It was a standard clause that stated that Paramount had to make her a pay offer if ST III was to go ahead. They did. The agent counter-offered. Normally Paramount would counter counter-offer with something agreeable to all, but Paramount was not interested in negotiating.

I mean a clause in which the actor is obliged to participate in a sequel, if there is one. I imagine actors in the recent Twilight franchise had to sign something like that.

Always seemed to me that they wanted the chance to re-envisage the character. Maybe someone was worried that Saavik was too popular, and could easily become the popular resident Vulcan if Spock stayed away/dead?

I can't believe the producers would be worried that a new character was too popular.

 

[RoJoHen]

I wonder about Saavik's longevity had Kirstie Alley remained in the role. Would she have become a main character in all subsequent movies, or would they still have written her out of the story at the beginning of TVH?

 

[Khan 2.0]

Probably written her out in IV as was. She probably would've wanted out to do other stuff. Anyway as already mentioned savvik wouldn't have fitted in the main story of IV. Maybe shed have been back for VI though (if shed done III/IV)

 

[Therin of Andor]

And so Director Nimoy went off in search of a new Saavik - and even told Robin Curtis that she should not watch Alley's ST II performance to prepare for the role.

Maybe if he hadn't done that, her performance would have come across as something more appealing than a piece of cardboard.

According to "Starlog" interviews of the day, Curtis gave Nimoy exactly the performance he was looking for. I guess he disliked Alley's interpretation of a Vulcan, and they totally steered away from the "half-Romulan heritage" stuff.

Fans complained about Curtis's delivery of the "David is dead" line (although I thought it appropriately unnerving), but Curtis said in her interviews that Nimoy made her redo take after take. "Colder, say it colder..." he'd tell her.

So Cardboard Saavik was the director's choice, not the actress's.

I wonder about Saavik's longevity had Kirstie Alley remained in the role. Would she have become a main character in all subsequent movies, or would they still have written her out of the story at the beginning of TVH?

The original intention for having a new, young couple (Decker/Ilia; Saavik/David) was to give ongoing Trek telemovies or TV episodes some longevity. Shatner and Nimoy were still quite eager to break away from Trek if they could, and Doohan, Takei, Nichols and Koenig were not going to satisfy the new demographic.

ST III, as it evolved in production, was a major turning point for the franchise. Things changed when Nimoy agreed to return Spock from the dead. Had he not wanted to return (or had they left Regenerated Spock as a younger version, played by Joe W Davis, for example?; and left David alive), Trek would have continued with the younger cast members as lead characters.

 

[PCz911]

According to "Starlog" interviews of the day, Curtis gave Nimoy exactly the performance he was looking for. I guess he disliked Alley's interpretation of a Vulcan, and they totally steered away from the "half-Romulan heritage" stuff.

Fans complained about Curtis's delivery of the "David is dead" line (although I thought it appropriately unnerving), but Curtis said in her interviews that Nimoy made her redo take after take. "Colder, say it colder..." he'd tell her.

So Cardboard Saavik was the director's choice, not the actress's.

.

Wow! I suppose I need now to apologize to robin. All this time I just assumed she was a horrible actress. Now I see it was the late mr nimoy with whom I have an issue about the performance.

 

[Maurice]

I never had a problem with the "David is dead," line, as she's clearly trying to hold in her emotions and not to give the Klingons the satisfaction of knowing they hurt her.

 

[Frontier]

Saavik, to me, was always a means to an end. A plot point. The same as Decker and Illia in TMP. There to serve a function for the plot and not much else.

I do wish it had been her and not Valeris in TUC though. To have that character return and betray them... it would have been so much more powerful than the carbon copy character added to fill the space.