Have you seen her performance in TNG's "Gambit" two-parter? I kept waiting for a big reveal: Saavik under cover! (Not quite how the episode unfolded, of course, but still intriguing.)
Alley on not doing Trek III
- Thread starter Khan 2.0
- Start date
Have you seen her performance in TNG's "Gambit" two-parter? I kept waiting for a big reveal: Saavik under cover! (Not quite how the episode unfolded, of course, but still intriguing.)
This is how I took it as well. When you compare her previous 'method of talking - if you will', this line is suitable clipped. I think you can hear it in her voice that she is somewhat unnerved a bit by what just transpired. She was working very hard to keep it together.
I can't imagine Saavik being in The Voyage Home. It was a movie about the original cast so naturally they had to get her out of the way.
My problem with Robin Curtis is her natural personality is not very stoic, right down to her voice. She has kind of a bubbly, perky, Mary Hart-like vibe. So when she tried to play a Vulcan, it felt, well, forced. Nimoy has that low baritone voice that was well suited for it, and Kirstie Alley had the sultry smoky voice (although her actual performance made her come off more annoyed than emotionless). I think Nimoy did a great job with Trek III overall but Robin Curtis was just miscast.
It does feel regrettable that they made Valeris such an obvious Saavik replacement. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered if they'd done more to establish her as a unique character in her own right, but very little effort seems to have been made.
I don't see how Saavik being a traitor makes Spock look any more foolish than Valeris being a traitor. They were both Spock's protegees, and the conspiracy to assassinate Gorkon was obviously a hastily-conceived thing, as they would have had no reason to kill him before Praxis exploded. So it's not like Valeris was waiting for years to betray Spock.
I don't believe that even the lead actors had contracts like that, which is why they renegotiated their salaries with each new Trek film. As Therin noted above, it wasn't like today, where they knew they were going to make a certain number of films. Each new Trek film was thought to be the very last one.
I'm just going to say it: I liked Robin Curtis a lot more as Saavik.
And I'm happy they didn't throw the character of Saavik under the bus in VI for "extra" dramatic impact. I heard enough bitching that they did that to Adm. Cartwright. It's just too bad she seemed to fall of off the face of the world(s) after IV.
And I'm happy they didn't throw the character of Saavik under the bus in VI for "extra" dramatic impact. I heard enough bitching that they did that to Adm. Cartwright. It's just too bad she seemed to fall of off the face of the world(s) after IV.
I liked the look of Alley's Saavik more but i wish they had fleshed her out and explained why she was so emotional. Meyer obviously disliked emotionless Vulcans because Valeris is all over the place too. Curtis plays the best Vulcan but Alley's Saavik had more obvious depth. I wish Nimoy had let Curtis play the same character instead of a different character with the same name.
True but that's no excuse for Valeris. I love the TWoK novelisation actually. I really felt for the scientists on Regula 1 and you actually learn to care for Peter. They should have given him a scene with Saavik in TWoK, something simple to suggest she is tutoring him and that he has a crush on her. They could probably have slotted in a brief scene before the elevator scene where he encourages her to speak with Kirk.
Why would Saavik need any encouragement? "Self-expression doesn't seem to be one of your problems."
Kirstie Alley did a good job as Saavik, but nothing that I'd call memorable. The same for Robin Curtis. Her saving grace is that she played Saavik to Leonard Nimoy's direction. If she wasn't convincing as Saavik, in my opinion, it's on Nimoy.
I thought Kim Cattrall brought a unique quality to Valeris, one that we haven't seen before or since. Valeris was young, driven, logical, but with emotions just barely below the surface. I think this was Kim Cattrall's greatest display of acting talent.
But that's just me.
I thought Kim Cattrall brought a unique quality to Valeris, one that we haven't seen before or since. Valeris was young, driven, logical, but with emotions just barely below the surface. I think this was Kim Cattrall's greatest display of acting talent.
But that's just me.
I am a big fan of Cattrall's performance as Valeris. She's witty, complicated, sympathetic. It's also a good script that it's easy to see Valeris' point of view and there's not a lot of black and white thinking. Contrast that to the extreme measures Spock goes thru to stop her and it gets more complicated and interesting.
I did think Spock had his suspicions of Valeris; did anyone notice how Spock treated her after she asked him how he was able to know where Kirk and McCoy were? Spock was in full on Sherlock Holmes mode observing suspects and collecting evidence; I think a part of him was hoping he was wrong about her. He's not a fool, but a victim of having faith in her.
When Valeris was getting grilled on the bridge, but before Spock forced himself upon her, my heart was already going out to her. I don't know ... she was sympathetic, even after she was left to contemplate her sins. That moment, for me, was when Valeris reminded Kirk, ".. let them (the Klingons) die, you said. Did I misinterpret you?" Because, you know what? Kirk did say that and at the time, the way it's edited together, he did mean that. And I know that Shatner asked for a gesture to be allowed after saying that, to sort dismiss it, like he did not, in fact, mean it. But we don't get to see that.
What we see is Captain Kirk ready let the Klingon empire collapse. And Valeris can't help but be further misled by this. Someone of Kirk's stature in Starfleet and his place in Galactic History is voicing the same, exact rhetoric that the very conspirators she was recruited by are spouting. It could've only cemented her reasoning for doing what she felt she had to do. "Did I misinterpret you?" and no fuss is made over the line. She's not even shown saying it. But it so defines her, in that moment ...
What we see is Captain Kirk ready let the Klingon empire collapse. And Valeris can't help but be further misled by this. Someone of Kirk's stature in Starfleet and his place in Galactic History is voicing the same, exact rhetoric that the very conspirators she was recruited by are spouting. It could've only cemented her reasoning for doing what she felt she had to do. "Did I misinterpret you?" and no fuss is made over the line. She's not even shown saying it. But it so defines her, in that moment ...
Everything you said is true, and I'm sorry for the thread drift, but I was stunned of her revelation of that line. This means she was recording Kirk and Spock and lord knows who else to support her ethics; there's a line she's walking on. It's quite sinister in hoping her conspirators could convince the Empire and Star Fleet to invoke an act of war. Kirk would've been her martyr after framing him, and then what? Obliteration of the Klingon society and it wont end there she will back stab her allies; she becomes a serial killer - all in the face of logic. This was a sign she was twisted.
The race who would've benefited from the unrest were the Romulans, an element which could've been effective if Saavik was part of the plot.
The race who would've benefited from the unrest were the Romulans, an element which could've been effective if Saavik was part of the plot.
I never interpreted Valeris' intentions to be quite that dark. She wanted the Klingons dead, but I never had the impression she was going to become a serial killer taking out her allies. I think she genuinely believed the Federation would be safer with the Klingons wiped out, and I think she thought she was doing the right thing. That's what makes her so interesting. From her perspective she was the hero.
Is there really some evidence she was going to go serial killer on her allies or is this just speculation?
Each of us is the hero of our own story. No matter what the details of that story may be. Someone like Valeris projects that heroism onto the world around her, to justify her actions. And that makes her sympathetic, to a point. She just went past it, as did all the conspirators.
True! But by the same token, that would still not be a bar to Peter giving her that encouragement. The point is to establish a relationship between Peter and Saavik and they establish that he's mischievous in his earlier scene (if you are watching the version it is still in).
There is an episode of Voyager where Tuvok applies logic above morality. Valeris is just going down that route for what she sees as the needs of the many.
Last edited: