All Our Yesterdays...haunting...

[Greg Cox]

In one of my books, I speculated that there were no other planets in Sarpeidon's solar system so they would have had no real incentive to develop a space program, since the nearest other worlds were light-years away. Instead of having stepping-stones like a moon, nearby planets, and so on, they would've had to go straight to warp travel or sleeper ships to get anywhere, so their space program never got off the ground--and they devoted all their resources and ingenuity to time travel instead . . .

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

In one of my books, I speculated that there were no other planets in Sarpeidon's solar system so they would have had no real incentive to develop a space program, since the nearest other worlds were light-years away. Instead of having stepping-stones like a moon, nearby planets, and so on, they would've had to go straight to warp travel or sleeper ships to get anywhere, so their space program never got off the ground--and they devoted all their resources and ingenuity to time travel instead . . .

That is a rational explanation. Additionally, who can say that some other world's culture would not develop an interest in time--which is more of an uncontrollable mystery than space travel? Perhaps time intrigued them so much that they invested centuries into developing such a wildly advanced technology such as the Atavachron--and the means to "prepare" living beings for travel?

 

[plynch]

Or were the people who travelled back already part of the planet's history before they went, predestined to contribute to the makeup of their present civilisation?

dingdingding winner

 

[Ithekro]

You'd think they wouldn't give the Prime Directive much more than a brush over considering the planet is about to be destroyed anyway. Can't contaminate a species that is going to be extinct in a few hours.

A society's culture isn't a biological entity that can be contaminated, infected, or diseased. That form of the Prime Directive is loathsome. Fortunately, that's more TNG era than TOS which concerned itself with preventing actual imperialism and conquest rather than condescending paternalism.

Even in TOS they talked about and dealt with "contamiation" via failures in the Prime Directive, or other instances of human or Federation ideas or technology being placing into another culture. Iotia and the "book" stringing a culture to immitate 1920s gansters. Tracey's providing phasers to the Kohms. John Gill's exporting National Socialism to other worlds. Things like that.

 

[Maurice]

Bah. This episode is a great example of a pointless puzzle-box. We go to a place, we lose contact with the ship, we go through some scrapes, we have a romance of the week, and we get out.

 

[Metryq]

In one of my books, I speculated that there were no other planets in Sarpeidon's solar system

No need to speculate. Kirk states this in his opening log.

 

[Greg Cox]

In one of my books, I speculated that there were no other planets in Sarpeidon's solar system

No need to speculate. Kirk states this in his opening log.

Well, there you go! No wonder the planet's residents didn't try to evacuate. They had nowhere to go--except into the past!

 

[The Old Mixer]

Bah. This episode is a great example of a pointless puzzle-box. We go to a place, we lose contact with the ship, we go through some scrapes, we have a romance of the week, and we get out.

You missed the part where we eat animal flesh and enjoy it.

 

[Greg Cox]

Bah. This episode is a great example of a pointless puzzle-box. We go to a place, we lose contact with the ship, we go through some scrapes, we have a romance of the week, and we get out.

Gotta disagree. This is one of my favorite third-season eps. Sure, it works more on a emotional level than an intellectual level, but the idea of a doomed people escaping into their own past is indeed haunting and poetic--like something out of Ray Bradbury.

And, unlike some romances-of-the-week, the Spock/Zarabeth thing works for me--and ends on a genuinely bittersweet note that leaves you with a lump in your throat.

(Granted, the whole Kirk-is-accused-of-witchcraft plotline is somewhat less compelling, although it has its moments.)

 

[Maurice]

What are you disagreeing with? That it's a puzzle box?

 

[Timo]

That it's pointless, presumably. WWII was a box in your sense, too: people got odd ideas, went to war, killed each other a lot, and then quit and came home, end of story. But that story featured a lot of "points" and had what one might term "impact". It's not as if the audience is unmoved at the end of this story that also describes loss of life, or danger thereof, on a global and personal scale. Well, at least our heroes are moved...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Push The Button]

Perhaps they had Iconian technology or Stargate style tech to visit other worlds, but decided it was best to go to their own past instead of other planets.

That's the most hopeful idea: most of the Sarpies went through portals to other star systems, and only a few history buffs went to "The Library" where Mr. Atoz and his time machine offered a trip to Sarpiedon's past.

Atoz tells Kirk that he and/or his replicas sent all of the Sarpies into the planet's past. I'm thinking that the entire operation took decades, and was well planned and organized, with no last-minute panicky mobs rushing the library or other ugliness taking place.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Bah. This episode is a great example of a pointless puzzle-box. We go to a place, we lose contact with the ship, we go through some scrapes, we have a romance of the week, and we get out.

Yeah, but did you feel anything for Spock--or Zarabeth's dilemma?

 

[Shawnster]

Bah. This episode is a great example of a pointless puzzle-box. We go to a place, we lose contact with the ship, we go through some scrapes, we have a romance of the week, and we get out.

City on the Edge of Forever?

 

[MacLeod]

In one of my books, I speculated that there were no other planets in Sarpeidon's solar system so they would have had no real incentive to develop a space program, since the nearest other worlds were light-years away. Instead of having stepping-stones like a moon, nearby planets, and so on, they would've had to go straight to warp travel or sleeper ships to get anywhere, so their space program never got off the ground--and they devoted all their resources and ingenuity to time travel instead . . .

Wasn't it mention in the opening Captain's Log that Sarpedion was Beta Niobe's only satellite?

We don't know how or when the planet was surveyed it could have been decades ago done by a long range probe that passed through the system, detected that the star was in the process of going nova and had an inhabited planet that was below the tech threshold for contact. So Starfleet hasa rough idea of when the star would go Nova and at the appropriate time would dispatch a ship to monitor and record the Nova.

The Investigation of the Planet wasn't origanlly part of the survey but a decision by Kirk to investigate why the planet was seemingly no longer inhabitaed.

As for why they escaped into the past, whilst we don't know how much of the planet was affected Sarpedion did suffer from an Ice age some 5000 years(I think) ago that might have stunted some development.

 

[Mr. Hengist]

Bah. This episode is a great example of a pointless puzzle-box. We go to a place, we lose contact with the ship, we go through some scrapes, we have a romance of the week, and we get out.

You missed the part where we eat animal flesh and enjoy it.

Not to mention pon farring all over Mariette Hartley.

 

[plynch]

Ship (people) in danger. Get out of danger. Pretty much every Trek ep. The devil (in the dark) is in the details. Execution. Charm, joy. I don't like this ep, but it's visceral, not based on logic. All you have said in its favor I acknowledge.

 

[Maurice]

Bah. This episode is a great example of a pointless puzzle-box. We go to a place, we lose contact with the ship, we go through some scrapes, we have a romance of the week, and we get out.

City on the Edge of Forever?

No, because City hangs on a tough personal decision, which is the definition a drama with real stakes. Here Kirk crew are trapped in an arbitrary puzzle that only affects them because of personal danger. Kirk's got nothing to lose by trying to get back. Spock has the instant-love excuse whereby he'd be willing to screw over an old friend and colleague for a bit of tail he's just met. Spock's so out of character here it's not even funny. Yeah, Kirk's torn about if he can let Edith die, but you don't see him just saying "fuck you" to Spock and the world that got changed. He's tormented over what needs to be done.

I might've felt for Zarabeth, but not much, mostly because I'm told she's alone rather than because of a anything her character does or exhibits.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I might've felt for Zarabeth, but not much, mostly because I'm told she's alone rather than because of a anything her character does or exhibits.

That was the point of her story: within minutes of her introduction, she was designed to generate pity--long before her brief romance. I mentioned Spock's dilemma earlier, but in truth, he's not the key part of the emotional hook, since the audience knows (no matter how effective the journey) that in the end, he will return to the Enterprise.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Spock's so out of character here it's not even funny.

Spock being out of character is rather the point, though. He's reverting to a passionate Vulcan like those of 5000 years ago, as a consequence of having gone through the Atavachron. McCoy evidently figures that out because humans aren't as compromised as Vulcans by the process. Evidently by comparison with the change that Spock undergoes, human nature is little different in the 23rd century from what it was 5000 years ago.

Dialog:

MCCOY: Are you trying to kill me, Spock? Is that what you really want? Think. What are you feeling? Rage? Jealousy? Have you ever had those feelings before?
SPOCK: This is impossible. Impossible. I am a Vulcan.
MCCOY: The Vulcan you knew won't exist for another five thousand years. Think, man. What's happening on your planet right now, this very moment?
SPOCK: My ancestors are barbarians. Warlike barbarians.
MCCOY: Who nearly killed themselves off with their own passions. Spock, you're reverting into your ancestors five thousand years before you were born!
SPOCK: I've lost myself. I do not know who I am. Can we go back?
ZARABETH: I don't know. I only know that I can't go back.
MCCOY: I know I'm going to try, Spock, because my life is back there, and I want that life.

One thing I like about the episode is that we hear this side of Spock:

MCCOY: You listen to me, you pointed-eared Vulcan.
SPOCK: I don't like that. I don't think I ever did, and now I'm sure.

Taking this line as part of the premise, what we're seeing and hearing are expressions of how Spock really feels.

The crux of the story is Spock's choice to sacrifice what he desires, which matters more than usual because in this case he feels free to express his feelings. In essence, he has to repeat the choice that ancient Vulcans made to favor logic over emotion. McCoy can see both sides, of passion on one hand and logic on the other. McCoy is even more logical than Spock in discerning the flaw in what Zarabeth is telling them about being unable to get back. This placing of McCoy in the middle between passion and reason makes him the bridge who helps Spock come back, and I see this middle between passion and reason as an intentional characterization of human nature generally.

For me, regressing to live in the past to escape death works as a metaphor on several levels. One, in escaping to the past, the Sarpeidons inject their vitality into the past, and that transference of vitality matches the recurring pattern in the episode of the peoples of the past being more passionate and savage than those in the present. Metaphorically, the Sarpeidons are stoking the passions of their own past. Two, the idea of a library in a civilization at the end of its existence is analogous to an old person reflecting back on their life, as suggested by the title. Even Zor Kahn being concerned with how he would be remembered fits the theme of narratives in a library. Romanticizing about the past is one of the more obvious themes of the episode.

I think this is one of the second tier episodes that had the potential to be among the best.