I can, but it is faint praise. Generations was a smoking pile of crap, so it wouldn't take much to be superior to that.
All Good Things
- Thread starter PhoenixIreland
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I can, but it is faint praise. Generations was a smoking pile of crap, so it wouldn't take much to be superior to that.
After 7 years of not playing poker with the crew--why start now? Why such an about face for the Captain? Plus--I've always hated Data's emotion chip. What started out as exploring an idea--what would a real android with no emotions be like, could a machine with enough info/connections/complexity develop something akin to emotions (ala that old Heinlein book with Mike the computer), we get a chip that makes him instantly human. So Data had been royally screwed around with the end of TNG's run, and I'd put Picard suddenly wanting to play poker with the crew right up there Chakotay/7 in Endgame as a silly way to end a series.
AGT just felt off from what I expected TNG to be--but then the show went steadily down hill starting with season 6, so I guess it was to be expected.
As for my dislike of Denise Crosby--AGT just brought back how much the writers screwed up Yesterday's Enterprise's perfect fate for Tasha with a half-Romulan daughter. To have her intruding on the finale was just more of the same--Denise Crosby quit, let her go play somewhere else.
Tapestry would have been the perfect final episode for Q--should have left it like that.
Even back then, I found the finale to be a major disappointment, perhaps I'll pull out my Q collective and watch again, perhaps I'll feel differently.
AGT just felt off from what I expected TNG to be--but then the show went steadily down hill starting with season 6, so I guess it was to be expected.
As for my dislike of Denise Crosby--AGT just brought back how much the writers screwed up Yesterday's Enterprise's perfect fate for Tasha with a half-Romulan daughter. To have her intruding on the finale was just more of the same--Denise Crosby quit, let her go play somewhere else.
Tapestry would have been the perfect final episode for Q--should have left it like that.
Even back then, I found the finale to be a major disappointment, perhaps I'll pull out my Q collective and watch again, perhaps I'll feel differently.
DS9 just ruined the show for me. And it almost made villains out of the Prophets keeping their Jesus away from his family and killing their opposition. Basically made their entire show about Jesus all the sudden instead of a Captain who wasn't a complete believer like he was most of the show. But that's enough of bad mouthing that finale.
AGT had a good story, great ending and it basically left things open ended.
AGT had a good story, great ending and it basically left things open ended.
But crews should drift apart--anything else is just stagnation. I could live with Riker never taking a promotion and leaving...when they didn't make it a subject of episode so that you thought about how silly it is. These people are in Starfleet--that's about exploring and making a career, not about keeping the same 6 people around you for 60 years who aren't even immediate family. If everyone took that tack, there'd be no progress. It would be one thing for the crew of any old ship to take that route, but the flagship of the Federation? That's silly--plus it keeps new blood from having a chance to serve on the Enterprise. I liked the portrayal of Picard just fine for 7 years, then they wreck it with the very last and final scene. Silly.
The ending of DS9 was breathtaking in its mean-spiritedness toward a principal member of the cast for 6 years.
I've been reading that Endgame was better than AGT in this thread and I am in absolute shock over this.
I enjoyed both All Good Things... and Endgame. I think Endgame was a great Voyager series finale.
If I'm to compare the two the reasons I think it was better.
1. The time travel had a noble purpose instead of being part of a pointless paradox
2. The story made more sense, a lone ship trying to take the risky road home after 7 years.
Ok we didn't have the Pastur and the upgraded Ent-D but the story made more sense and was more enjoyable, if you really think about AGT it was all pointless, to take down an anomoly that never would have existed if you had not time traveled to begin with.
You can actually say that with a straight face, right? Because I can't even think of Janeways actions in that episode as noble without cracking up!
Getting your people home years earlier and saving many of their lives?
Sounds noble to me.
Sounds noble to me.
What about the new live that was created in this now-alternative timeline? Or the life already gone after seven years in the Delta quadrant?
Let's face it, Admiral Janeway was just selfish in this episode. Who is she to judge that this new timeline is the better one?
number6
Vice Admiral
I don't think half the posters here were watching the same show I was..
Here's a brief description of the Trek finales:
TOS: The crew realises that it is their experiences from exploring space that have given them the insight into the fact that anything is possible, given the application of science and experience. Training and experience make a Captain more than a quest for power and glory.
TNG: Picard is confronted with Humanity still being on trial. Taking him through different periods of time, Q makes Picard realise that Humanity's role in the universe should not become complacent or "just another day at the office." It's not just about exploring anomalies, it's about exploring ourselves.
DS9: Sisko is confronted with his own destiny and what drew him to DS9 and the prophets in the first place. His noble sacrifice saves the universe from forces that would place eternity in flame and ruin.
VOY: Janeway gives in to her guilt for stranding her crew and goes back in time to take advantage of an opportunity she missed because it was too risky. The goal of their original mission was to find the Maquis and bring them to justice, and then to find their way home from the DQ. Ultimately the mission of VOY turns out to be not the destination, but the journey itself.
ENT: In Terra Prime we learn that the last obstacle we have to overcome in our quest to explore the unknown is ourselves. TATV teaches us about the sacrifices we make for the exploration of humanity and the value of alliances made along the way (albeit this lesson was a clumsy one).
Here's a brief description of the Trek finales:
TOS: The crew realises that it is their experiences from exploring space that have given them the insight into the fact that anything is possible, given the application of science and experience. Training and experience make a Captain more than a quest for power and glory.
TNG: Picard is confronted with Humanity still being on trial. Taking him through different periods of time, Q makes Picard realise that Humanity's role in the universe should not become complacent or "just another day at the office." It's not just about exploring anomalies, it's about exploring ourselves.
DS9: Sisko is confronted with his own destiny and what drew him to DS9 and the prophets in the first place. His noble sacrifice saves the universe from forces that would place eternity in flame and ruin.
VOY: Janeway gives in to her guilt for stranding her crew and goes back in time to take advantage of an opportunity she missed because it was too risky. The goal of their original mission was to find the Maquis and bring them to justice, and then to find their way home from the DQ. Ultimately the mission of VOY turns out to be not the destination, but the journey itself.
ENT: In Terra Prime we learn that the last obstacle we have to overcome in our quest to explore the unknown is ourselves. TATV teaches us about the sacrifices we make for the exploration of humanity and the value of alliances made along the way (albeit this lesson was a clumsy one).
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New life?
^
On that note, I've often though that an interesting twist would have been, as Voyager was leaving its mark of terror through the warp conduits, something goes awry in sick bay and Miral is stillborn.
It would have been risky, but would have left a lot to ponder after the show was over.
On that note, I've often though that an interesting twist would have been, as Voyager was leaving its mark of terror through the warp conduits, something goes awry in sick bay and Miral is stillborn.
It would have been risky, but would have left a lot to ponder after the show was over.
I thought the final scene was a great way to end the series and it softened the blow of the crew breaking up in Nemesis, something we didn't get when the original crew seperated.
Have you never worked at a place, or say, gone to university or whatnot with a group of people where, for the longest time, you felt that things would always be like they were at that particular moment? Most of the time that's just not the case, but the thing is that you're just not aware of it and you just sorta drift apart in stages, which softens the blow.
Picard had the chance to see the final outcome while, in the end, still being in the middle of such a great working relationship with everyone around him. I never felt him joining the poker game was unmotivated or sudden. It was perfect. It's still the lasting image I have of TNG, even despite the movies.
Plus it was great writing, utilizing something that has been a thread throughout the seasons.
Picard had the chance to see the final outcome while, in the end, still being in the middle of such a great working relationship with everyone around him. I never felt him joining the poker game was unmotivated or sudden. It was perfect. It's still the lasting image I have of TNG, even despite the movies.
Plus it was great writing, utilizing something that has been a thread throughout the seasons.
I liked everything you didn't!
The whole concept of anti-time was intriguing to me. I also liked seeing O'Brien back in command red and at the helm. And there are some great Q lines in this ep.
I always thought it was clever ending the series almost how it began -- with humanity still on trial and Q acting as judge, jury and executioner. It's also strongly hinted that the Q want humanity to succeed in its quest to uncover the unknown, as they may be hoping the human race will be their successors, and this is their way of grooming humanity for that responsibility in the far future.
For the record, the only two "finales" that don't work for me are TOS's "Turnabout Intruder," as it wasn't a real finale, and ENT's "These Are The Voyages," with its ham-fisted attempt to bridge Archer's Enteprise with Picard's.
r
Red Ranger
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AGT's story is a little dull in places, but the awesome last 5 minutes elevates it to best ST finale ever status.
Agreed!
BTW: Voyager's Endgame was horrible, IMHO.
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