Aliens movies

[Pauln6]

Alien is my favourite. It's easy to forget how controversial it was to kill the 'hero' half way through was at the time

Never seen "Psycho", huh?

Psycho was controversial too though, especially by wrong-footing the viewer into thinking that the story was about the first victim. Mind you, Janet Leigh's character and her boyfriend were crooks weren't they, so hardly heroic? I admit though, I can't actually remember the hero dying - I thought he lived to the end!

 

[Tulin]

Yeah I was referring to Leigh's character.

The whole setup was new for audiences because they were following this woman(of dubious morals, as you noted)and just when they had settled into feeling like she was the main character, she is brutally(for the time)killed.

There is SO MUCH about "Psycho" I love, including stories of how audiences were locked into the cinemas, not admitted after the film started, having nurses on duty and being advised to not discuss the film with others.

BRILLIANT marketing and real lateral thinking in terms of creating an "experience" rather than just seeing a film.

Lost on the mobile phone chattering, KFC chomping, urban googleplex morlocks of today.

 

[Pauln6]

They are producing the George R R Martin fantasy stories and I know that several principle characters end up dead in the middle of the stories (although I've never read them myself so no spoilers please). It will be interesting to see if the writers just skate over it and keep them alive until the end of they decide to stick to the writer's decision to make nobody safe.

In fact, one of my criticisms of the most recent Alien films is that you can often tell who is going to survive quite early on and it ruins the tension.

 

[zakkrusz]

Not a big Alien movie fan but the 1st, 2nd, and 4th one were okay. My favorite is Aliens.

 

[saturn5]

"Plus, they're all UK actors which makes them more dedicated to their craft than Americans."

Speaking of stereotyping...

Yeah jingoism (and I AM British), Alien 3 was filmed in the UK and that's why we had British actors

Again, lousy characters in Alien3 (in fact NO character for most of them!), the characters of Aliens were so good that everyone copied them and that's why they seem cliched now. Alien/Aliens great characters, dialogue, tension, excitiment, suspense, humour, punch the air moments (need I repeat the immortal line?).

Alien 4 did it's best, as the title suggests trying to ressurect the series from all the damage caused by 3, it doesn't compare to the first 2 but it's good enough. The AvPs were just a cash in which you would enjoy more if you hadn't seen the superlative first 2 Alien films

 

[Anwar]

Again, lousy characters in Alien3 (in fact NO character for most of them!)

Please, they had plenty character. More than Cameron's 1-note stereotypes.

, the characters of Aliens were so good that everyone copied them and that's why they seem cliched now.

They were cliches before Aliens, only those past movies were real characters while the Marines were the bare-bones cardboard cut-out versions. Like I said, take away that roll call list at the start and no one would know who 2/3 if them were.

 

[Davros]

Alien and Aliens. The rest is junk.

I agree

 

[saturn5]

Again, lousy characters in Alien3 (in fact NO character for most of them!)

Please, they had plenty character. More than Cameron's 1-note stereotypes.

, the characters of Aliens were so good that everyone copied them and that's why they seem cliched now.

They were cliches before Aliens, only those past movies were real characters while the Marines were the bare-bones cardboard cut-out versions. Like I said, take away that roll call list at the start and no one would know who 2/3 if them were.

In Alien you only have 7 characters (8 if you include Jones) so you have them in utter isolation from the rest of humanity, that's why they stick so well.
Characters in Aliens are great, you think Burke is actually a good guy, he helps Ripley and he acts heroically at first which makes his treachery so shocking. Carrie Hern as Newt is probably the best ever performance from a child actor, she's incredibly convincing and naturalistic. Hicks is a great leading man not least because he doesn't seem like the leading man at first, Vasquez is an icon, I could go on

 

[Anwar]

Vasquez is just some gun prop with boobs, so is Hicks, Hudson is simply a coward, Gorman is a stereotypical incompetent, Burke is obviously bad from the get-go, Newt isn't a character she's a plot device. And the acting is lousy from everyone except Weaver and Lance which is why they were kept in A3.

 

[Harvey]

And the characters in Alien 3 have more depth than that how?

 

[BK613]

Aliens but only by a slimy second set of mandibles over Alien. As for stereotypes in Aliens, this movie invented many of the space marine stereotypes people are complaining about.

(As a side note, i loved the fact that the dropship pilot in Starcraft used almost ever line that Ferro had in the movie.)

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Aliens is the ultimate sci-fi action film... The ultimate bug hunt film. Great action and characters. And the theatrical cut is WAY superior IMO.

I would disagree with that last part. I prefer the special edition. I'll admit that some of the added scenes aren't 100% neccessary, like Captain Hollister's cameo & the stuff with the machine gun drones. However, removing the references to Ripley's dead daughter totally guts the central emotional relationship of the film.

Plus, they're all UK actors which makes them more dedicated to their craft than Americans.

Bullshit. While there are examples of movies where the British actors totally outshine the American ones (SEE the Star Wars prequels), the American actors in Aliens all do an exemplary job.

So long as we're singing the praises of Aliens, I would note that it's probably the most quotable action movie of all time.

"Jesus Christ! Somebody at a cushy desk on Earth sends a message telling us to go look at a grid reference. We look. They don't say why and I don't ask. I don't ask because it takes two weeks to get an answer out here and the answer is always-"
"-'Don't ask.'"

"Have you ever been mistaken for a man?"
"No. Have you?"

"We endanger species."

"Game over, man! Game over!"

"I may be synthetic but I'm not stupid."

"I don't know which is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage."

"Get away from her, you BITCH!"

Not even Burke, the sleaziest sleazeball weasel of a villain in sci-fi?

Oh come on. I'm sure there's got to be someone in the RoboCop series even sleazier.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Vasquez is just some gun prop with boobs, so is Hicks, Hudson is simply a coward, Gorman is a stereotypical incompetent, Burke is obviously bad from the get-go, Newt isn't a character she's a plot device. And the acting is lousy from everyone except Weaver and Lance which is why they were kept in A3.

Yeah, I think we 'get' that you don't like Aliens and/or Cameron now... But you are welcome post the same argument a couple more times if it makes you feel better!

 

[Anwar]

I'd like Aliens more if it wasn't pretty much a plagiarism of the 50s B-movie "Them!" only with the best parts of the first movie grafted onto it.

 

[Reverend]

I'd like Aliens more if it wasn't pretty much a plagiarism of the 50s B-movie "Them!" only with the best parts of the first movie grafted onto it.

OK, now that's about the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while.

As for my own opinion on the films; objectively I know Alien is, cinematically the best made film, but that doesn't stop me from liking Aliens better. I admit I also have a real soft spot for Alien 3, even though I hate what the writers did to Newt and Hicks, it's still a very watchable film. I mean come on, this is still a Fincher film, no matter how he'd been hobbled by the suits the direction and cinematography is still first class.
We should really consider ourselves lucky that that god awful "wooden planet" version of the script wasn't filmed instead.
And no, I didn't have much trouble distinguishing between Charles S. Dutton, Charles Dance, Paul McGann, Brian Glover and Pete Postlethwaite. Uncanny really because they're SOOO much alike.

As for Alien Resurrection...well it's an OK film in it's own right but well below par for the series as a whole but it's not without it's charm. On the plus side it had Brad Dourif and Ron Perlman; any film with either of these two usually goes up a few notches just by their being there, so both of them is a huge help. Also, Winona Ryder get a hole blown in her gut and dropped three stories into a monster infected pit of death...yeah, I'd been waiting ages for someone to do that.
Of course in retrospect, the big plus is the crew of the Betty being the prototype for Firefly, hell some of the characters are practically unchanged. Johner and Christie are very much Jayne and Zoe.

 

[saturn5]

Vasquez is just some gun prop with boobs, so is Hicks, Hudson is simply a coward, Gorman is a stereotypical incompetent, Burke is obviously bad from the get-go, Newt isn't a character she's a plot device. And the acting is lousy from everyone except Weaver and Lance which is why they were kept in A3.

Vasquez is the first ultra tough female marine character we ever see, nowadays she's copied everywhere (Aliens having great influence on movies AND video games). She's a lot more than gun prop with boobs and a lesbian icon as of course Sigourney is when she rescues Newt
I didn't notice that Hicks had boobs, that'll be news to Michael Biehn?
Hudson isn't just a coward, he's freaked out but he's brave and tough. Burke isn't bad from the outset, he helps save the marines in the APC, puts out the fire, tries to treat Hudson's wound etc Gorman is also a heroic figure (and it's hard to see where he went wrong in his orders), Newt is terrific, the doll scene etc is wonderful, she's not your average stage school moppet

Yeah, Aliens has great dialogue, the acting is overall superb, it's a thrilling ride but with emotional depth, superb writing, great imagination (much of the technology we see over and over again in sci-fi today stems from Aliens) and great direction. According to Gale Anne Hurd she watched in a Hollywood theatre with a cynical industry audience and they still got up and cheered I'm sure the audience for Alien 3 went home and slit their wrists

 

[rramarr]

The Alien sequels are only good because of the strength of the first movie. I love the first three. I like Resurrection but it was a little too fan pleasing and existing only for the benefit of making money not adding to the story. They should of made a prequel about the take over of LV 426 but that would exclude weaver.

 

[Tulin]

And no, I didn't have much trouble distinguishing between Charles S. Dutton, Charles Dance, Paul McGann, Brian Glover and Pete Postlethwaite. Uncanny really because they're SOOO much alike.

Nice try.

I don't think there'd be many people who WOULD get them confused.

I think most of us here are referring to the seemingly endless parade of bald, blackened face, robed "extras" that were cast as the subsidiary prisoners.

It was them as alien fodder I was just NOT interested in because they were just all so same-ish and indistinguishable.

But thanks for your failed attempt at sarcasm.

 

[Tulin]

Vasquez is just some gun prop with boobs, so is Hicks, Hudson is simply a coward, Gorman is a stereotypical incompetent, Burke is obviously bad from the get-go, Newt isn't a character she's a plot device. And the acting is lousy from everyone except Weaver and Lance which is why they were kept in A3.

Vasquez is the first ultra tough female marine character we ever see, nowadays she's copied everywhere (Aliens having great influence on movies AND video games)

So much so that back in 1986 when Roddenberry was prepping ST:TNG he came up with the tough female security chief, Macha Hernandez.

Guess who came in for the role of the short, dark haired ethnic-looking character?

Yep - Marina Sirtis.

Denise Crosby came in for the role of Counsellor Deanna Troi. Somebody realized a mistake had been made and the rest is history.

Thank goodness because there is only ONE Vasquez!!!

I didn't notice that Hicks had boobs, that'll be news to Michael Biehn?

Nope. Just lovely firm man-pecs.

 

[Anwar]

Vasquez is the first ultra tough female marine character we ever see, nowadays she's copied everywhere (Aliens having great influence on movies AND video games).

She's a 1-D cardboard cutout "tough" character who spews one-liner after one-liner, has no character beyond "sound tough", and ultimately commits fancy suicide to get her out of the plot. Ripley in the first movie is a MUCH better example and a FAR better-written character of the "tough female" variety.

I didn't notice that Hicks had boobs, that'll be news to Michael Biehn?

Boobs or no, he's just a walking gun prop there to look broody and be Ripley's 1-D sidekick.

Hudson isn't just a coward, he's freaked out but he's brave and tough.

He's just a whinier version of Lambert from the first movie, and Morse from the third movie is EVERYTHING Hudson should have been in that Morse actually totally made up for his cowardice and irresponsibility. All Hudson did was whine, and then just lose his mind when getting killed at the end firing wildly.

Burke isn't bad from the outset, he helps save the marines in the APC, puts out the fire, tries to treat Hudson's wound etc

Because he needs them to save his own skin. Ash from the first film and Bishop II (who was only there for 5-1o minutes!) were far better characters in their acting.

Gorman is also a heroic figure (and it's hard to see where he went wrong in his orders),

Please, he's NOTHING compared to Captain Dallas and Dillon.

Newt is terrific

She's a living plot device, not even a real character.

Yeah, Aliens has great dialogue, the acting is overall superb, it's a thrilling ride but with emotional depth, superb writing, great imagination (much of the technology we see over and over again in sci-fi today stems from Aliens) and great direction. According to Gale Anne Hurd she watched in a Hollywood theatre with a cynical industry audience and they still got up and cheered I'm sure the audience for Alien 3 went home and slit their wrists

Aliens' dialog is 100% one-liners, the acting is typical action-movie nonsense, the "emotional depth" made little sense (the emotions of Alien and A3, THAT is real), nearly everything in the movie was stolen from earlier films, and the audience cheered because they were action movie filmwatchers who have no guts and can't handle character death or dark storytelling.

I said my piece. Alien is the best of the movies, and always will be.