Aliens movies

[Reverend]

I think most of us here are referring to the seemingly endless parade of bald, blackened face, robed "extras" that were cast as the subsidiary prisoners.

It was them as alien fodder I was just NOT interested in because they were just all so same-ish and indistinguishable.

Well, being essentially extras, you're not supposed to be able to distinguish between them so much nor are they supposed to be interesting. They're background to make up the numbers and get eaten at the first opportunity. I mean what do you expect? As I recall half the marines in Aliens had only one line each or less and were wiped out in the first attack. Do you think we're supposed to care about Crowe, Dietrich or Frost? Of course not and it was no different in Alien 3 or any other film of this type. Unless you're dealing with a very small group like in Alien, you always have a core group of characters and anyone else is just window dressing.

 

[byron lomax]

Alien stands out as the best for me, by quite a wide margin. Not just for the fact that's it's a horror film in space (and a very well directed one), but for the sense of terror and wonder it creates - we learn very little about the derelict ship and the origin of the aliens. What's waiting for us out there, in that cold, vast universe?

Aliens is a great movie too, even though I never really bought that Ripley would agree to go back to the planet. The scene where the marines' head-cams go out one by one when the aliens attack is definitely the most terrifying moment of the series (for me, anyway). The final battle is just classic.

Alien3 is a bit of a muddle for me. The religious "symbolism" is tedious and overwrought. It's depressing to see Ripley's effort and sacrifice squandered within minutes, and to see the alien itself so "literalised". But the last 40 minutes are really exciting - trying to beat the alien with no weapons!

I can barely remember anything about Resurrection, though I remember feeling the last time that it felt very "aliens-by-rote" and it was time to end the series. The film had nothing to say, except some pointless and silly things.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I enjoyed the first AvP for what it was - silly fun. No imagination involved, of course, but good fun all the same. I cheered when the alien took down two predators, as it's usually portrayed as the weaker species in other media. The second was awful.

 

[Tulin]

I think most of us here are referring to the seemingly endless parade of bald, blackened face, robed "extras" that were cast as the subsidiary prisoners.

It was them as alien fodder I was just NOT interested in because they were just all so same-ish and indistinguishable.

Well, being essentially extras, you're not supposed to be able to distinguish between them so much nor are they supposed to be interesting. They're background to make up the numbers and get eaten at the first opportunity. I mean what do you expect? As I recall half the marines in Aliens had only one line each or less and were wiped out in the first attack. Do you think we're supposed to care about Crowe, Dietrich or Frost? Of course not and it was no different in Alien 3 or any other film of this type. Unless you're dealing with a very small group like in Alien, you always have a core group of characters and anyone else is just window dressing.

Again, nice try, attempting to cover your arse there, but as you Yanks say, I'm calling you on it.

Your ORIGINAL sarcastic point was that people who have complained about the indistinguishable characters in A3 were stupid because we could not tell Postlethwaite from Dutton, Dance and McGann.

Those actors/characters were on a different tier in the film from "the extras", as you have now also chimed in on. I accept your apology on behalf of those of us who had a hard time getting emotionally invested in A3 because of these cyphers and understand you are also now saying this was a contributing factor towards the film's soullessness and thus its failure to connect with audiences and not make as much money.

Thank you for helping validate our point.

 

[Reverend]

I think most of us here are referring to the seemingly endless parade of bald, blackened face, robed "extras" that were cast as the subsidiary prisoners.

It was them as alien fodder I was just NOT interested in because they were just all so same-ish and indistinguishable.

Well, being essentially extras, you're not supposed to be able to distinguish between them so much nor are they supposed to be interesting. They're background to make up the numbers and get eaten at the first opportunity. I mean what do you expect? As I recall half the marines in Aliens had only one line each or less and were wiped out in the first attack. Do you think we're supposed to care about Crowe, Dietrich or Frost? Of course not and it was no different in Alien 3 or any other film of this type. Unless you're dealing with a very small group like in Alien, you always have a core group of characters and anyone else is just window dressing.

Again, nice try, attempting to cover your arse there, but as you Yanks say, I'm calling you on it.

Your ORIGINAL sarcastic point was that people who have complained about the indistinguishable characters in A3 were stupid because we could not tell Postlethwaite from Dutton, Dance and McGann.

Those actors/characters were on a different tier in the film from "the extras", as you have now also chimed in on. I accept your apology on behalf of those of us who had a hard time getting emotionally invested in A3 because of these cyphers and understand you are also now saying this was a contributing factor towards the film's soullessness and thus its failure to connect with audiences and not make as much money.

Thank you for helping validate our point.

What are you gibbering about mate? Either you can tell them apart or you can't. Make your bloody mind up!
I don't care if people failed to make an emotional connection to the film or not, nor have I, nor do I care to speculate of the factors behind it. All I implied is that the complaint that "it's rubbish because all the characters are bald geezers" is utterly asinine. I mean at least pick a valid point to whine about, like the plot for example. That really was naff, for oh so many reasons.

 

[Anwar]

Guys like Revered kept going on about how we couldn't tell ANY Of the prisoners apart, when this was blatantly untrue. We set the record straight and now he slams us and insults the film.

Just no pleasing some people, especially if the prisoners had all been AMERICAN (aside from Dillon) no one would've disliked them.

 

[Tulin]

And the argument "I mean at least pick a valid point to whine about, like the plot for example. That really was naff, for oh so many reasons." is classic deflection technique.

He saw that his argument was totally blown away but then tried the old sleight of hand deflection trick.

 

[Pauln6]

Alien3 would have been a stronger movie with Hicks and Newt because at least they would have added a bit more breadth to the types of characters they had to work with. Hicks was injured and in any event was so taciturn that I don't think he would have altered the dynamic much but he would still have been a distinguishable character i.e. not a convict or guard.

Newt is more problematic as she would have had to be recast and we could potentially end up with the same damsel in distress routine as the last film. A more fitting and sinister fate for the poor kid would have been to have her carted off by Lance Henrikkson at the end...

The Alien franchise was about humans trying to survive against these aliens and yet they felt the need to make it all about Ripley by effectively saying that none of the other characters in the previous movie mattered. It becomes hard to care about any new characters when they've treated characters that we cared about previously so contemptuously. To me at least.

 

[Bisz]

Aliens by a mile.

Alien is good but I'm not a fan of horror so its not my cup of tea.

Alien Resurrection is decent.

I hate the abortion that is Alien 3. Hate it! Hate it! Hate it!

 

[Teelie]

I said my piece. Alien is the best of the movies, and always will be.

In your opinion it is. You have the same mentality I've noticed of a lot of critics; you expect too much of movies to be "art" in your traditional sense of it. Under this definition, anything "action-y" is going to fail because it lacks those traditional artistic values.

Aliens also created many of the stereotypes you're going on about. Before Aliens, we didn't have a Vasquez, and it set off the whole marines in space craze. Even if it wasn't first, it was definitive. It set off a lot of copy-cats and clones. And don't even start on it "ripping off" some other past movie. That's a through and through Hollywood tradition. The Thing remake is considered an excellent piece of work and it's a copy of a movie that came out in the 1950's which in turn was taken from a book written in the 20's or 30's. If you want to start complaining about stereotypes and rip-off's, at least acknowledge it's not unique to Aliens.`

It's easy to take a movie's characters and deconstruct them into simpletons as you did. I can do the same thing to the characters of Alien or Alien 3 or any other movie. All you have to do is look at them with a simple scope and a derision that they're not living up to a narrow expectation of proper story-telling.

 

[Anwar]

In your opinion it is. You have the same mentality I've noticed of a lot of critics; you expect too much of movies to be "art" in your traditional sense of it. Under this definition, anything "action-y" is going to fail because it lacks those traditional artistic values.

District 9 was an action-y movie and I LOVED that. But also the plot holes and generic nature of Aliens turned me off to it the more I looked into it. So it's not just the characters.

Before Aliens, we didn't have a Vasquez,

Hardly a grand addition to cinema since she's just a cookiecutter character.

The Thing remake is considered an excellent piece of work and it's a copy of a movie that came out in the 1950's which in turn was taken from a book written in the 20's or 30's.

You make it sound like Carpenter wasn't aware it was a remake he was making. Cameron usually refuses to admit to his plagiarisms, which make up the bulk of his movies.

It's easy to take a movie's characters and deconstruct them into simpletons as you did.

It's particularly easy with the Aliens cast since they're hardly characters to begin with.

I can do the same thing to the characters of Alien or Alien 3 or any other movie.

Sure, but it's not AS simple as with the Aliens' cast.

Alien RES I can at least be grateful to for being Whedon's proto-Firefly. All "Aliens" gave us were those craptastic Dark Horse comics.

 

[saturn5]

In your opinion it is. You have the same mentality I've noticed of a lot of critics; you expect too much of movies to be "art" in your traditional sense of it. Under this definition, anything "action-y" is going to fail because it lacks those traditional artistic values.

District 9 was an action-y movie and I LOVED that. But also the plot holes and generic nature of Aliens turned me off to it the more I looked into it. So it's not just the characters.

Before Aliens, we didn't have a Vasquez,

Hardly a grand addition to cinema since she's just a cookiecutter character.



You make it sound like Carpenter wasn't aware it was a remake he was making. Cameron usually refuses to admit to his plagiarisms, which make up the bulk of his movies.

It's easy to take a movie's characters and deconstruct them into simpletons as you did.

It's particularly easy with the Aliens cast since they're hardly characters to begin with.

I can do the same thing to the characters of Alien or Alien 3 or any other movie.

Sure, but it's not AS simple as with the Aliens' cast.

Alien RES I can at least be grateful to for being Whedon's proto-Firefly. All "Aliens" gave us were those craptastic Dark Horse comics.

Oh I have big problems with the comics too which are hugely sadistic. But not as much I have with Part 3. And I can tell you exactly who Frost (the incredibly musclely Afro-American Marine) and Detrich (the female medic who get's impregnated) are.
Those who try to defend Alien 3 are on a hiding to nothing, it's a travesty with no redeeming features whatsoever. Whilst 4 is by no means in the same level as the first 2 superb films it does what it can to clean up the mess left by 3 and is an ok in it's own right

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Those who try to defend Alien 3 are on a hiding to nothing, it's a travesty with no redeeming features whatsoever.

"No redeeming features whatsoever"? Dude, Alien 3 has multiple things going for it.

1) David Fincher. Say what you will about the story, the fact that the film holds together, given the unfinished script and the studio meddling, is a testament to Fincher's genius behind the camera. Camera movement is fluid, Fincher has a definite sense of time and place. Alien 3 is directed very well.

2) Nihilism. Alien 3 may be the most nihilistic film Hollywood has ever produced. This is a film that is devoid of hope -- and that's the point. Everyone you care about suffers. Everyone you care about dies. The film has a very basic message -- the universe is fundamentally hostile, and you can either accept that or rage against that, but either way the universe will get you. Alien 3 has wins, but it doesn't have outs. The film is a downer. It's supposed to be.

You can dismiss these if you want. I make no apologies for saying that Alien 3 is my favorite of the quadrilogy and Aliens is my least favorite.

 

[Bishbot]

Alien RES I can at least be grateful to for being Whedon's proto-Firefly. All "Aliens" gave us were those craptastic Dark Horse comics.

I assume you're referring to the really really good Dark Horse comics that the film series really should have taken some cues from instead of giving us Alien3? Ok, they're not all good, but there's loads of them and some of the story arcs were very well written.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Which Alien movie is your favorite?

Mine has to be Aliens and Alien resurrection.

Alien and Alien 3 were good but not as good as the other 2. weird really it normally the 1st one maybe the secong thats the best and the others go down hill.

Alien and Alien 3 were my favorite because they were darkest. Aliens comes in third because it was so Disneyfied. Sure an entire colony is dead but it's a happy ending because Ripley has a new daughter. Typical simplistic James Cameron bullshit. Don't get me wrong I like Cameron but he's big on easy answers. I hate Alien Resurrection. Awful movie. Has some good characters in it though.

 

[RoJoHen]

^I tend to agree about Aliens. It's good, but I just don't find it as unique as the first and third movies.

Alien Resurrection has the cool underwater sequence, but that's about it.

 

[Anwar]

Alien RES I can at least be grateful to for being Whedon's proto-Firefly. All "Aliens" gave us were those craptastic Dark Horse comics.

I assume you're referring to the really really good Dark Horse comics that the film series really should have taken some cues from instead of giving us Alien3? Ok, they're not all good, but there's loads of them and some of the story arcs were very well written.

The entirety of Dark Horses' Aliens comics aren't even good as toilet paper.

 

[saturn5]

Those who try to defend Alien 3 are on a hiding to nothing, it's a travesty with no redeeming features whatsoever.

"No redeeming features whatsoever"? Dude, Alien 3 has multiple things going for it.

1) David Fincher. Say what you will about the story, the fact that the film holds together, given the unfinished script and the studio meddling, is a testament to Fincher's genius behind the camera. Camera movement is fluid, Fincher has a definite sense of time and place. Alien 3 is directed very well.

2) Nihilism. Alien 3 may be the most nihilistic film Hollywood has ever produced. This is a film that is devoid of hope -- and that's the point. Everyone you care about suffers. Everyone you care about dies. The film has a very basic message -- the universe is fundamentally hostile, and you can either accept that or rage against that, but either way the universe will get you. Alien 3 has wins, but it doesn't have outs. The film is a downer. It's supposed to be.

You can dismiss these if you want. I make no apologies for saying that Alien 3 is my favorite of the quadrilogy and Aliens is my least favorite.

I agree it's 'a downer' I don't know about you but I don't go to the cinema for that?
Alien 4 is better when you rewatch it, doesn't measure up to Alien/Aliens but Alien3 was a long way down to recover from.
Aliens 'disenyfied'? Jesus! 132 minutes of non-stop violence, gore and horror! But intelligent, moving, well written and acted violence, gore and horror!
As for the Dark Horse comics they really didn't capture the terrific spirit of Aliens at all and that's why they were so terrible

Tell you what, can we do a poll on this forum to decide it once and for all?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Aliens 'disenyfied'? Jesus! 132 minutes of non-stop violence, gore and horror! But intelligent, moving, well written and acted violence, gore and horror!

Aliens has all the subtlety of a hammer to the forehead.

I might rate Aliens higher if I could get rid of James Horner's score. I don't want to hear "Stealing the Enterprise" from Star Trek III when Ripley's rescuing the Colonial Marines. I don't want to be in the Mutara Nebula when Ripley's fighting the Alien Queen with the Powerloader.

 

[Bishbot]

Alien RES I can at least be grateful to for being Whedon's proto-Firefly. All "Aliens" gave us were those craptastic Dark Horse comics.

I assume you're referring to the really really good Dark Horse comics that the film series really should have taken some cues from instead of giving us Alien3? Ok, they're not all good, but there's loads of them and some of the story arcs were very well written.

The entirety of Dark Horses' Aliens comics aren't even good as toilet paper.

Read them all, have you?

 

[byron lomax]

I assume you're referring to the really really good Dark Horse comics that the film series really should have taken some cues from instead of giving us Alien3? Ok, they're not all good, but there's loads of them and some of the story arcs were very well written.

The entirety of Dark Horses' Aliens comics aren't even good as toilet paper.

Read them all, have you?

Actually, I thought the first two Aliens series starring Newt and Hicks were really good. Only the third series, "Earth War", which brought back Ripley, was a big disappointment. And some excellent stories came later too ("Labyrinth", "Sacrifice").