Alex Kurtzman: 'Star Trek: Discovery' Will Spark Debate And Adhere To Canon

[Locutus of Bored]

Um, actually the response across the board is very positive for the uniforms, with the exception of the Talifans.

You were just given a mod admonition earlier today not to use disparaging remarks against fans, which you acknowledged with a snarky remark as usual, because you always have to have the last word on everything.

You've been told numerous times to knock off the insulting remarks to fans and to limit your comments or complaints to the mods to PM, and yet you continue to refuse to correct your behavior. It's a shame because you do add a lot of constructive content to the forum, but you ruin it with the constant chip on your shoulder about anyone who doesn't say something 100% positive about the show or movie.

Infraction for trolling and for ignoring mod instructions. COMMENTS TO PM.

 

[Tarek71]

I don't "accept" anything of the sort, and the very phrasing is condescending. I see nothing retro in these designs, and you have yet to explain what specific design elements seem retro to you and in what ways. Hell, if their goal was nostalgia, wouldn't they have based them on "The Cage"? Their total dissimilarity to TOS uniforms seems like a pretty clear indication that they aren't meant to invoke the past.

No. It's not just "nostalgia". In the case of the 2230s Kelvin uniforms the idea was to create a look that would visually appear to be years earlier than the TOS look. And retrofuturistic, vintage sci fi uniforms 1930s-50s were used as inspiration to achieve that. It's not about nostalgia for the 1940s or the 60s. That could again be the goal here. We've heard that they are a bit of "this and that". The blue might reflect ENT and even TMP a bit, as there was a blue service uniforms there as well. But the metallic, shimmery highlights, and piping on the boots, pants, sides, and Zap Brannigan shoulder braiding are among the very retrofuturistic elements. If anything, it's even more retro than the Kelvin uniforms were. I haven't seen a detailed statement about the where all the "this and that" elements were specifically drawn from. But I certainly expect that vintage, retro sci fi will be among those stated influences. Apparently, the Mudd costume was influenced by Adam Ant. Interesting. Inspiration can come from anywhere. But vintage sci fi is all over these Starfleet and Klingon uniforms and on some of the sets.

Why don't you see that? I have no idea. You're a writer, not a designer? You know literary genres better than fashion, design styles? IDK. I don't have to account for that.

 

[BillJ]

Um, actually the response across the board is very positive for the uniforms, with the exception of the Talifans.

Why is one a "Talifan" for not liking the uniforms? I see a lot of things to like about Discovery, the uniforms aren't one of them.

 

[Mudd]

Watching the trailer I was surprised by how quickly the uniforms stopped mattering in my enjoyment of the thing. I might admire a costume or set or something at a given moment but when the people are walking or talking the focus shifts away from that pretty quickly.

That's always the case. I hated the TMP uniforms until I saw the movie, and then I just sort of still disliked them when I wasn't watching the movie.

 

[Tuskin38]

I just want them in Star Trek Online, lol

 

[Noname Given]

No. It's not just "nostalgia". In the case of the 2230s Kelvin uniforms the idea was to create a look that would visually appear to be years earlier than the TOS look. And retrofuturistic, vintage sci fi uniforms 1930s-50s were used as inspiration to achieve that. It's not about nostalgia for the 1940s or the 60s. That could again be the goal here.

^^^
IDK - I thought the U.S.S. Kelvin uniforms in ST2009 looked A LOT like (almost a copy of the 25th century TNG era uniforms from TNG's "All Good Things" series finale and DS9's "The Visitor".

 

[Mr Awe]

Now it's everyone wanting a post-Nemesis show set primarily in a conference room with guest appearances by Tuvix and Keiko and Wesley Crusher.

I'm sure everyone who wants a post-NEM show has different reasons. However, I'd almost guarantee you that none of them want a conference room based show! You can go post-NEM without having the same tone as Berman Trek.

The main reason I thought they'd go with a post-NEM show is because it frees them up somewhat from canon while remaining in the same timeline. You set it 100 years later or whatever and you expect changes. You can have the same basic toys but in new configurations. You can also add in new toys without worrying about conflicts.

But, they chose a prequel and that's fine. They sound like they're up for the task.

 

[Mr Awe]

That's always the case. I hated the TMP uniforms until I saw the movie, and then I just sort of still disliked them when I wasn't watching the movie.

I just rewatched TMP after having not seen it for probably 20 years. I was all prepared to dislike the uniforms, but nope they didn't look bad at all in context and in action. It's funny, you see a still image out of context and they look bad but, as you say, you quickly forget that during the movie.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

I don't see it as a prequel the way ENT was one. It's an updating and fleshing out of the time

I just rewatched TMP after having not seen it for probably 20 years. I was all prepared to dislike the uniforms, but nope they didn't look bad at all in context and in action. It's funny, you see a still image out of context and they look bad but, as you say, you quickly forget that during the movie.

I didn't mind them except for the shoes and belt thingie. I liked how Spock had a different collar to account for his longer neck. I didn't like McCy's 70's collar but appreciated that they tailored the costuming to the actor. I really love the film and it's the only one that has a real cinematic feel IMO. The Director's Edition really showed how the effects can be "finished" as they never were originally due to time constraints. I hope we get a 4K Edition someday.

 

[BillJ]

The Director's Edition really showed how the effects can be "finished" as they never were originally due to time constraints. I hope we get a 4K Edition someday.

The original effects blow the CGI out of the water. The Blu-ray is awesome.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

I'm sure everyone who wants a post-NEM show has different reasons. However, I'd almost guarantee you that none of them want a conference room based show! You can go post-NEM without having the same tone as Berman Trek.

The main reason I thought they'd go with a post-NEM show is because it frees them up somewhat from canon while remaining in the same timeline. You set it 100 years later or whatever and you expect changes. You can have the same basic toys but in new configurations. You can also add in new toys without worrying about conflicts.

But, they chose a prequel and that's fine. They sound like they're up for the task.

I don't think of it as a prequel. A prequel has to fit into continuity, both past and future. This show will honor continuity to an extent, but it will mix, match, and rearrange it as they see fit creating an entirely new reality going forward. Harry Mudd is an example.
Is that a reboot? If it is, they will never say it, and that's fine.

 

[Mr Awe]

I don't think of it as a prequel. A prequel has to fit into continuity, both past and future. This show will honor continuity to an extent, but it will mix, match, and rearrange it as they see fit creating an entirely new reality going forward. Harry Mudd is an example.
Is that a reboot? If it is, they will never say it, and that's fine.

It's a prequel, midquel, or something along those lines because it is in the same timeline but somewhere in the middle rather than the end. It looks different but it is the same timeline.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

The original effects blow the CGI out of the water. The Blu-ray is awesome.

Agreed, but they were done in SD. even worse, they didn't use Maya which was the only film FX quality app at the time. They used Lightwave. The Lightwave renderer was not up to the task at the time and was mostly used for TV.

What I liked was how they added only things that were in the original storyboards and what Wise intended. Wise oversaw the edition right before he died. I would like to see them retopologize the models and re-render these added scenes in 4K. I don't want anything redone (except that saucer matte painting needs to go. It's so bad).

 

[Christopher]

I don't see it as a prequel the way ENT was one. It's an updating and fleshing out of the time

Of course it's not a prequel the same way, because it's a different show. But it is a still a prequel by definition -- a subsequent installment in a continuity that's set at an earlier time. (Okay, it's not a prequel to "The Cage," but it's a prequel to the rest of TOS.)

I liked how Spock had a different collar to account for his longer neck.

That actually had something to do with keeping his Vulcan makeup intact, or keeping it from smearing the uniform. (Or maybe to keep the edge of the makeup from showing under the collar?) They did the same thing early in TOS -- Spock originally had a higher collar than everyone else.

I don't think of it as a prequel. A prequel has to fit into continuity, both past and future. This show will honor continuity to an extent, but it will mix, match, and rearrange it as they see fit creating an entirely new reality going forward. Harry Mudd is an example.

That is simply false. The producers have stated over and over again that this show is set in Prime continuity and will stay consistent with it, and I've been assured of the same by my friend David Mack, who's read the scripts, and my friend Kirsten Beyer, who's participating in writing the scripts. They're not contradicting Trek canon (at least, no worse than Trek canon already contradicts itself), they're just filling in its gaps in unexpected ways, just as Enterprise did. If ENT was the Star Wars prequels, DSC is Rogue One and/or the Han Solo movie.

And really, how is Harry Mudd an example, based on the few seconds we've seen of him? Because Rainn Wilson is much older than Roger C. Carmel? Well, most people assume Harry Mudd was middle-aged anyway even though Carmel was younger than Shatner. Because he has a beard? Big deal, people can shave.

 

[Noname Given]

I don't think of it as a prequel. A prequel has to fit into continuity, both past and future. This show will honor continuity to an extent, but it will mix, match, and rearrange it as they see fit creating an entirely new reality going forward. Harry Mudd is an example.
Is that a reboot? If it is, they will never say it, and that's fine.

No Star Trek show has been 100% consistent with previous continuity (either external or internal.) They've all 'honored it' to a point; but EACH ONE has occasionally thrown out or retconned something for the sake of a story in an episode here and there. If you think the Star Trek Universe has been 100% internally consistent from day one, I have to ask - what show were you watching? (Because it wasn't Star Trek.)

 

[Christopher]

No Star Trek show has been 100% consistent with previous continuity (either external or internal.)

I still remember how frustrated I was by TNG: "Where Silence Has Lease," in which Data, upon observing a phenomenon almost exactly like the zone of darkness from "The Immunity Syndrome," made a point of saying "There is no record of any Federation vessel encountering anything remotely like this." It was like they were actively trying to create a contradiction.

 

[Spider]

I still remember how frustrated I was by TNG: "Where Silence Has Lease," in which Data, upon observing a phenomenon almost exactly like the zone of darkness from "The Immunity Syndrome," made a point of saying "There is no record of any Federation vessel encountering anything remotely like this." It was like they were actively trying to create a contradiction.

Or, the writers had no clue or had never seen the TOS episode.

Or, they didn't care. LOL

 

[Mudd]

They're not contradicting Trek canon (at least, no worse than Trek canon already contradicts itself)

You can steer an aircraft carrier through that caveat.

First ten minutes of episode one: Spock's got a human sister, but we can explain that. Trust us.

I can't see any hard core fans having a problem with that.

 

[Jedi_Master]

So will Spock make out with his sister?

It's what George Lucas would have wanted...plus the Game of Thrones stuff is supposed to influence every single TV show from now till the end of time...

 

[Christopher]

Or, the writers had no clue or had never seen the TOS episode.

Of course, which is why I said "like." If it was an accident, then it's amusing how the specific choice of words in Data's line nonetheless seems like it's going out of its way to be contradictory.

Then again, they had people on staff like Sternbach & Okuda who knew TOS very well and could've pointed out the discrepancy. So it's hard to believe nobody on the entire production noticed the similarity.