Alex Kurtzman Gets New Deal With CBS, Will Expand 'Star Trek' TV

[cooleddie74]

I don't know that ol' Lawrence fits in at all, but American redneck culture is some awesome shit. No lie. It's my heritage and I love...a lot of it.

It's just there's just no way we're systemically mistreated.

Nope. We're not. If anything the American redneck has been glorified above and beyond what even his mighty pop culture chops can produce, and that is a staggering amount of pop culture across the spectrum. Few Americans have it better or are more pandered to than the white male with a redneck slant, but in many of their eyes they're now "the minority" and everybody else now has "more rights."

 

[Lord Garth]

Guys this seems like a load of shit. Some episodes and movies have political messages and allegory. Others do not. The quality of said episodes does not depend on the political content or lack thereof, nor does it depend on the content of the message, should it exist.

There...argument concluded.

"Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". Great message, terrible episode.

"Plato's Stepchildren". The Inter-racial kiss episode. Groundbreaking but also painful to watch sometimes, thanks to what the Platonians were forcing the crew to do throughout. Including making Kirk act like a horse.

 

[cooleddie74]

But Frank Gorshin was glorious as Bele. He even got an Emmy nomination for his guest appearance in that episode.

 

[Belz...]

Guys this seems like a load of shit. Some episodes and movies have political messages and allegory. Others do not. The quality of said episodes does not depend on the political content or lack thereof, nor does it depend on the content of the message, should it exist.

There...argument concluded.

You and I wish. Unfortunately now this will always come back to every thread, forum and website you can imagine.

 

[Lord Garth]

But Frank Gorshin was glorious as Bele. He even got an Emmy nomination for his guest appearance in that episode.

My favorite part's the self-destruct sequence. Except when we see Scotty's teeth in the extreme close-up. Didn't need to see that... and don't need to see that in HD!

 

[cooleddie74]

Real men have Scotch whiskey teeth, lad.

 

[Belz...]

Scotty's teeth are the best part of that episode!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Wow, that's a lot of condescension. What does "wrong side of history" even mean? And why you would want to side with the opposite group of radicals is a mystery. How about we stick to something more moderate and useful, instead, mmkay?

The condescenscion is wholy deserved in this case, and formed after tiring of first trying to politely have this same irritating debate in this forum and elsewhere hundreds of times over the past several years, but increasingly so in the last two for some unfathomable reason that I won't name because mentioning politics gets people's nethers all rolled up in a twist.

The wrong side of history being the side that opposes the goal of greater equality, inclusivity, and diversity in society and in the entertainment that should better reflect the changing realities of that society.

I love that you paint this as some sort of grand conflict between radical factions with you being the reasonable moderate watching over the proceedings and feeling nothing but pity. Please.

There's nothing radical about wanting greater diversity in casting decisions, and if you think that's a radical position you're not as moderate and above it all as you like to purport yourself to be.

By the same token, I won't even go so far as to call the opposite side of the debate radicals, as I feel that would be granting too high a status to a bunch of sadsack losers who sit at home whining and moaning about how the evil womens or black people or gays or Mexicans are the source of all their problems.

Radicals get shit done, even if it's evil shit. These neckbeards are just forming online petitions to reshoot The Last Jedi or pissing their big boy pants because The Doctor is a woman now. They deserve nothing but mockery or dismissal, whatever one's preference may be.

Why does everything, everywhere on the internet have to devolve into discussions about identity politics nowadays?

Because, as I said earlier, people like the guy you're currently undeservedly carrying water for, for some bizarre reason, feel the need to constantly freak the fuck out every time someone slightly darker in color than an albino mole rat (or LGBTQ, disabled, or a woman) get cast in a prominant genre movie or TV role.

If they would just crawl back under their rocks and suffer the horrific indignity of not always getting a first place participation trophy by default in silence then no one would have to terribly inconvenience your internet viewing time by making a "big deal" out of more diverse casting, because it would just be happening, and people would be happy, and life would be just a tiny bit more fair and equitable because minority groups would have more positive role models that reflected the people in their lives on TV and in film.

You know, radical shit like that.

 

[Vger23]

My favorite part's the self-destruct sequence. Except when we see Scotty's teeth in the extreme close-up. Didn't need to see that... and don't need to see that in HD!

Last Battlefield is a fun episode. It gets a lot of crap for being a little too "obvious," but I always thought it was fun, thoughtful and tragic.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Keep dodging.

And yes, people who bring their ideologies into every single topic does touch a nerve. Not every one of us wants to discuss that ideology every second of our lives.

I just scroll past stuff I'm not interested in and refrain from commenting on them.

 

[Tuskin38]

Touch a nerve?

Actually I'm with him here, what is the political nature of 'The Inner Light'?

 

[cooleddie74]

TOS was "identity politics," just done with the style of the mid-to-late 1960s. A white American male Captain, a Vulcan-human hybrid alien, a Southern American doctor who sometimes skirted close to stereotype but still managed to rise above the accent and origin of the character, a Scottish engineer, a black woman from Africa who spoke Swahili as fourth in the line of command, a Japanese-American helmsman, a Russian navigator with intense and even comically-exaggerated pride in his homeland and even a black doctor who occasionally poppped up with a very African-sounding surname.

Trek has always been about diversity and the politics of inclusion. Nothing new to see here. Anyone who thinks it's all of a sudden a new thing hasn't been paying attention or is being very selective about which Trek they want to nitpick.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Actually I'm with him here, what is the political nature of 'The Inner Light'?

I haven't seen that episode in years. So to be honest, I couldn't tell you. I seem to recall it does involve so sort of discussion in a governmental setting.
It was a broad statement, not a call for a round of whataboutism.

 

[Lord Garth]

Everyone knows how much I like DSC, so I have to say Discovery did very little in the way of politics during its first season. That's how I know people who think "STD has an agenda! SJWs!!!" are reading way too much into it. That's how I know it's more about their personal baggage and their own mindset than about the actual show itself.

 

[Belz...]

The condescenscion is wholy deserved in this case, and formed after tiring of first trying to politely have this same irritating debate in this forum and elsewhere hundreds of times over the past several years, but increasingly so in the last two for some unfathomable reason that I won't name because mentioning politics gets people's nethers all rolled up in a twist.

Maybe the reason why it gets people's panties in a bunch is because you're trying to have the same irritating debate hundreds of times over. Maybe give it a rest.

I love that you paint this as some sort of grand conflict between radical factions with you being the reasonable moderate watching over the proceedings and feeling nothing but pity. Please.

Where am I not being reasonable? Is the position I described earlier as the reasonable one not reasonable?

There's nothing radical about wanting greater diversity in casting decisions

If only it would stop there, you'd find very few people who'd disagree with you.

Because, as I said earlier, people like the guy you're currently undeservedly carrying water for, for some bizarre reason

What the hell are you talking about? You speak as if I either have to agree with you or him.

I just scroll past stuff I'm not interested in and refrain from commenting on them.

No, it sounds as if you talked out of your ass about that episode, can't describe its political nature, and are trying to avoid having to admit it.

 

[Belz...]

TOS was "identity politics," just done with the style of the mid-to-late 1960s. A white American male Captain, a Vulcan-human hybrid alien, a Southern American doctor who sometimes skirted close to stereotype but still managed to rise above the accent and origin of the character, a Scottish engineer, a black woman from Africa who spoke Swahili as fourth in the line of command, a Japanese-American helmsman, a Russian navigator with intense and even comically-exaggerated pride in his homeland and even a black doctor who occasionally poppped up with a very African-sounding surname.

Trek has always been about diversity and the politics of inclusion. Nothing new to see here. Anyone who thinks it's all of a sudden a new thing hasn't been paying attention or is being very selective about which Trek they want to nitpick.

It absolutely always was, and I believe I made that argument earlier in the thread. But as I said, it rarely hit you on the head with it. The characters were just there, doing their job. It wasn't so blatantly pushing an agenda as some people here seem to want it to do.

Even in Beyond, where we see Sulu meet with his man on the Yorktown station, it's done tastefully and without further comment, the way it should be: make it seem normal, not like a crusade.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, it sounds as if you talked out of your ass about that episode, can't describe its political nature, and are trying to avoid having to admit it.

I never mentioned that episode, so I can't have talked about it out of my ass or any other orifice.

 

[Belz...]

I never mentioned that episode, so I can't have talked about it out of my ass or any other orifice.

Correction noted.

You sure did imply that I only thought these episodes were apolitical, hence my question about that specific episode, which you've failed to answer. So instead you talked out of your ass about a number of episodes.

 

[cooleddie74]

DSC has a lot of issues but beating us over the head with diversity doesn't seem like one of them. Yes, Michael Burnham is a black woman raised by Vulcans because her parents were killed by the Klingons in a terror raid. That said, we hear more about her Vulcan upbringing and training than we do her African-American heritage. Stamets and Dr. Culber are gay, but if anything their relationship has been underplayed because of how a lot of audiences - even an supposedly enlightened and more tolerant Trek audience - would react to stressing the gay angle too strongly and playing up their romantic and physical relationships. Paul Stamets is a gay man. But we don't have it beaten into our heads every time we see him. Tardigrades and the mycelium network are most of what comes out of his mouth in dialogue and when he's not talking about his specifications as a scientist and spore drive engineering expert he's just being grouchy and snarky for the sake of, well, being a lovable asshole. We could probably count on one hand how many facts we know about the black African navigator on the Discovery bridge and have fingers left over to add what we know about Lt. Detmer the helmsman.

So, not seeing the crusade here. For a 2017-18 series set in humanity's future it is remarkably milquetoast in it's push for a debate on diversity.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Correction noted.

You sure did imply that I only thought these episodes were apolitical, hence my question about that specific episode, which you've failed to answer. So instead you talked out of your ass about a number of episodes.

Yes I did, because there is always the possibility that the politics of a particular episode might go over someone's head. (It's happened to me) Again general statement with no particular episode in mind.