Spoilers AHSOKA series [Spoiler Discussion]

[Saul]

Thrawn's introduction was so cool. That's how you introduce a bad dude but there are hints here he's not the biggest bad here. Then who or what is?
Ezra stepped right out of the animation and onto this show. Himself and Thrawn were worth the wait. The episode had some flaws but I'm taking a day off focusing on the bad and just enjoying the cool stuff.

 

[Set Harth]

That they aren't all sweetness and light, sacrificing all ambition and desire for the benefit of others. Their motives may be selfish without being evil, but selfishness is not a Jedi trait.

They're trying to bring Thrawn back to start a war against the NR, one that will inevitably cause devastation. Baylan may claim that this will somehow "break the cycle", but villains often claim that what they're doing is in service of some kind of greater good. Didn't Palpatine think he was preparing the galaxy for the Vong?

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

Me after Ep6

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[Reverend]

While the giant screaming statues are totally Dathmiri; I'm beginning to suspect that tower itself isn't Dathmiri in origin. I'm not seeing any of that new alphabet we've been getting in the credits, just those new hieroglyphs and the "Old Tongue" script we often see on ancient (but still more recent) Jedi & Sith structures. That combined with the how much "newer" everything looks compared to the ruins back in the home galaxy (which admittedly could just be down to maintenance), and how the shapes of the structure itself resembles Jedi and Sith architecture much more than what we saw on Dathomir (the trapezoidal doors are a bit of a giveaway) makes me wonder.

What if this whole thing is a prison the Jedi and/or the Sith built during the Old Republic (like the Citadel on Lola Sayu), long after and ancient Dathmiri left? What if those three Mothers are the only prisoners left behind? We know the Jedi and the witches have some kind of history but we don't know what. We also know that Talzin said her coven is in exile on Dathomir, but exiled from where, and by whom? This place only seems to have the three Great Mothers, and no sisters except for a catacomb full of caskets.

So if it is a prison, what else is trapped there, and is that what's been calling to Baylan?

Oh and the Old Tongue script above the door doesn't appear to say anything in particular. Just a string of random letters repeated on both sides. ("AROKTSOLNGIERSIHYAMLLAKORELURTEJUKESIAR" in case anyone is interested.)

Another interesting detail I only picked up on during a second viewing was the blaster bolts from the bandits' weapons looks very different than what we're used to. More sparky and firey. As if they're of a crude, much more ancient design.

All those stormtroopers look like they have been through a lot with their cracked and wrapped armor. The Chimaera has been heavily patched up. It still functions, but only has one main drive left. So while it might be able to enter hyperspace, it can't go fast. Certainly not fast enough to get home. So, he might have cruised around the local systems, but his goal has always been to return home. One of the rules of being lost is to stay where someone might find you.

High probability that a lot of Thrawn's stormtroopers are basically armor and a spirit held together by Nightsister magic.

As for Ezra. He's been escaping Imperial prisons since he was a teenager. At best they could have held him when he was wounded, and then he escaped, because that's what Ezra does.

Here's a disturbing thought; given the way we've seen Nightsister prosthetics work in the past; there's a good chance that the reason Enoch's helmet has a weird golden face isn't because it's a cool fashion statement, but because it's not a helmet at all. That's his head and actual face.

Side note: notice how he has an actual name, not "TK-12345" or whatever. Could be a "Thrawn doesn't treat his people like machines" thing, or could be that Enoch is actually from here.

 

[Set Harth]

AROKTSOLNGIERSIHYAMLLAKORELURTEJUKESIAR

if i had a nickel...

 

[Crewman6]

You are. There is nothing on screen establishing that he did “nothing” and had no plan. That’s just something you made up.

No, I didn't make it up. The show doesn't tell us Thrawn did anything at all except wait. You're making it up if you assuming some amazing cool backstory that Thrawn has been up to since there's no mention or evidence of that at all. That's not how evidence works, you know.

 

[fireproof78]

The only evidence is textual, in that the ISD is worn, and the armor is clearly weathered heavily.

Assumptions that they did nothing or something are neither completely accurate or accurate until we get more details.

 

[Gaith]

So Thrawn finally appears in live action, 32 years after his introduction in print, five years after his last cartoon appearance, and nearly three years after he was teased in The Mandalorian, and, in a 50-minute episode, the only thing this terrifying strategic genius (who never did anything particularly clever in the cartoons) does is... give someone resources before letting her go, and then order some mooks to kill her? That’s it? That’s how they’re introducing the Big Bad of the Mando timeline, who’ll presumably be the main antagonist of Filoni’s team-up movie? Are you kidding?

And there wasn’t any time for Thrawn to do anything else cool, because that other person (Sabine) had to have a fight scene against random unknown bandits that *checks notes* ... had zero impact on the story?

 

[Crewman6]

So Thrawn finally appears in live action, 22 years after his introduction in print, five years after his last cartoon appearance, and nearly three years after he was teased in The Mandalorian, and, in a 50-minute episode, the only thing this terrifying strategic genius (who never did anything particularly clever in the cartoons) does is... give someone resources before letting her go, and then order some mooks to kill her? That’s it? That’s how they’re introducing the Big Bad of the Mando timeline, who’ll presumably be the main antagonist of Filoni’s team-up movie? Are you kidding?

And there wasn’t any time for Thrawn to do anything else cool, because that other person (Sabine) had to have a fight scene against random unknown bandits that *checks notes* ... had zero impact on the story?

But...but...he's a complete tactical genius who could single-handedly overthrow the Republic!!

Which is why he spent the last ten years.....doing literally nothing whatsoever.

Must be saving all that brain power for the movie, since he's definitely not going to do anything of consequence in this show.

 

[Saul]

So Thrawn finally appears in live action, 22 years after his introduction in print,

22 years? You mean 32 years?

 

[David cgc]

22 years? You mean 32 years?

No, that's too much. 22 years is plenty. If that number keeps going up, the results could be disastrous. In no time, I'll be middle-aged.

 

[Captrek]

No, I didn't make it up. The show doesn't tell us Thrawn did anything at all except wait. You're making it up if you assuming some amazing cool backstory that Thrawn has been up to since there's no mention or evidence of that at all. That's not how evidence works, you know.

Wow. You really don’t have any purpose here except to show off how big an idiot you can be, do you? And I’ve been playing right into your hands.

OK, you win. You’re the biggest idiot around. I’m sure you must be very proud of yourself.

 

[Set Harth]

Introducing a character who's supposedly a "tactical genius" is a dicey proposition. You gotta back that up, and how many writers are going to be up to the task? How many writers are themselves tactical geniuses?

Take Kevin Anderson. ( Please! *rimshot* ) The Thrawn trilogy had just happened, and not to be outdone, he gave us another alleged tactical genius... whose tactics consisted entirely of crashing Star Destroyers into planets.

 

[Gaith]

22 years? You mean 32 years?

Dangnabit. Fixed. Thanks!

 

[Jedi Marso]

They're trying to bring Thrawn back to start a war against the NR, one that will inevitably cause devastation. Baylan may claim that this will somehow "break the cycle", but villains often claim that what they're doing is in service of some kind of greater good.

Baylan's comments this episode lead me to think that he was more hitching a ride with Ellsbeth than trying to help her with Thrawn, per se. Seems he has his own ambitions here. We'll see.

Didn't Palpatine think he was preparing the galaxy for the Vong?

Not until some idiots' stable of writers and publishers got together and came up with that whole bit of tripe, years after the OT. Palpatine wasn't preparing the galaxy for anything except to live under his own boot.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah it's pretty clear that for Baylan, unleashing Thrawn is a necessary side-effect of what he's actually after, not the goal in and of itself. What that goal is in specific terms remains to be seen.

It certainly feels like there's some soft setup going on here for the DotJ movie since aside from all the ancient lore on display, Baylan specifically says he seeks "the beginning". The beginning of the cycle, or the beginning of the Jedi? Whatever it was that got all of this started? This sounds like Mortis level stuff, if not literally Mortis itself. Something tied to the balance of the cosmic force that can allow him to begin it all over again . . . somehow?

 

[fireproof78]

They continue the Dark Side tendency that people are tools not fellow living beings.

 

[Gaith]

Introducing a character who's supposedly a "tactical genius" is a dicey proposition. You gotta back that up, and how many writers are going to be up to the task? How many writers are themselves tactical geniuses?

Well, I'm not a professional space fantasy writer, but it seems to me they could have had Thawn conquer several planet's worth of spacefaring societies during the last in-universe decade, and united them under his rule. When Baylan/Morgan/Sabine got to this new galaxy, they could have been intercepted by a band of scrappy outlaws, who would be turn out to be former top commanders of these societies. Their peoples had always been consumed by petty rivalries, but once Thrawn arrived, they belatedly banded together against him - to no avail. And now this ragtag crew is so desperate for an advantage, and so determined to keep Thrawn contained, that they're risking everything in order to intercept any new arrivals to their corner of the cosmos.

This group would take Baylan and Co. prisoner, and start to befriend Sabine, as she was their prisoner. Sabine would get to like them, and they'd discuss ways to imprison her captors, and send her home. Sabine would insist she'd have to find Ezra first, and their commander would be sympathetic, but say that her staying would be too dangerous. Or, heck, maybe Ezra would be a part of this crew himself. Sabine could urge him to return home, but Ezra could point out that, with the Empire defeated, his skills are needed more here.

Then, bam, out of nowhere, Thrawn's forces show up. The outlaws prepare to fight, but... sabotage! It turns out Thrawn figured out a way to covertly communicate with their navigator, and used his psychological tricks to flip him. The group is forced to surrender without a shot, and while Thrawn keeps his word to spare the navigator and other personnel, he has the group's leaders summarily executed for treason against himself. In a blind rage, Ezra rushes at Thrawn... and Baylan throws a knife through his back and into his heart. Thrawn smiles at Baylan, and, as Ezra gasps his last, suggests this could be the beginning of an intriguing partnership. Roll credits!

Now, that could have been an episode. That could have been a proper introduction for a Big Bad.

 

[Crewman6]

Well, I'm not a professional space fantasy writer, but it seems to me they could have had Thawn conquer several planet's worth of spacefaring societies during the last in-universe decade, and united them under his rule. When Baylan/Morgan/Sabine got to this new galaxy, they could have been intercepted by a band of scrappy outlaws, who would be turn out to be former top commanders of these societies. Their peoples had always been consumed by petty rivalries, but once Thrawn arrived, they belatedly banded together against him - to no avail. And now this ragtag crew is so desperate for an advantage, and so determined to keep Thrawn contained, that they're risking everything in order to intercept any new arrivals to their corner of the cosmos.

This group would take Baylan and Co. prisoner, and start to befriend Sabine, as she was their prisoner. Sabine would get to like them, and they'd discuss ways to imprison her captors, and send her home. Sabine would insist she'd have to find Ezra first, and their commander would be sympathetic, but say that her staying would be too dangerous. Or, heck, maybe Ezra would be a part of this crew himself. Sabine could urge him to return home, but Ezra could point out that, with the Empire defeated, his skills are needed more here.

Then, bam, out of nowhere, Thrawn's forces show up. The outlaws prepare to fight, but... sabotage! It turns out Thrawn figured out a way to covertly communicate with their navigator, and used his psychological tricks to flip him. The group is forced to surrender without a shot, and while Thrawn keeps his word to spare the navigator and other personnel, he has the group's leaders summarily executed for treason against himself. In a blind rage, Ezra rushes at Thrawn... and Baylan throws a knife through his back and into his heart. Thrawn smiles at Baylan, and, as Ezra gasps his last, suggests this could be the beginning of an intriguing partnership. Roll credits!

Now, that could have been an episode. That could have been a proper introduction for a Big Bad.

So much better than Thrawn just....walking forward and saying, "Yo, I'm Thrawn."

This show has been a series of missed opportunities from the jump.

 

[Crewman6]

Wow. You really don’t have any purpose here except to show off how big an idiot you can be, do you? And I’ve been playing right into your hands.

OK, you win. You’re the biggest idiot around. I’m sure you must be very proud of yourself.

Anytime you feel like having an actual discussion, let me know.