Hey, how come May could beat up Enoch when she woke up at the start of the season, but the whole team together couldn't do it in the time loop?
Spoilers Agents of SHIELD- The Final Season Discussion
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
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Simple: he wasn't trying to kill her the first time around.
Bingewatched the final 4 seasons pretty much back to back... Loved seasons 4 and 5, but 6 and 7 were pretty mediocre, especially 7 felt more like fanservice (Sousa - did he actually contribute anything other than ending up as Daisy's boyfriend? Happy end for him after Steve's stunt in Endgame...) than actual thought-through plot. Doesn't mean I didn't like the ending, it was fitting, but I wasn't as invested as I was in season 4 or 5.
But I love Coulson.
But I love Coulson.
Finally finished S7, and my reaction to the two-part finale was... it was fine. Indeed, it was a bit underwhelming, in large part a rehash of the S5 finale, which I wasn't crazy about the first time around, complete with a lame death fake-out for Daisy. I suppose the "original timeline" Fitz returned them to is still the non-Prime timeline in which Thor did go straight for Thanos' head, and the Snap never happened, but closing with Mack wearing a Fury jacket on a helicarrier seems a bit lame assuming this is the last we'll see of him. (Although, given the recent Far From Home cast news, never say never...) That said, it was still a satisfying and skillfully done conclusion.
And, of course, this is show is primarily about the ride; I like to call it a perpetual motion machine. S7 was probably the best since S4, and the time-hopping added a lot, especially the always-delightful Agent Sousa (even if I remain on Team Peggy/Sousa even after Endgame and this). Reviving John Garrett with James Paxton was an inspired move, but ultimately, Nathaniel Malick and the Chronicoms became rather tiresome, as did Izel and Sarge and Kasius before them. Ultimately Aida/Ophelia was the last of the genuinely compelling villains, but our heroes were so charismatic, that the weak baddies were rarely big problems outside of finales.
I kinda wish that these past few seasons, ideally after S4, had gotten even weirder - stranding the crew in a faraway realm of space and time permanently, maybe, rather than carrying on more or less as before, but with even fewer MCU connections. Much like Seasons 4 and 5 of The Last Ship being solid, yet lesser than (and superfluous to) its first three years, I could see ending a future AoS rewatch with the high point that was S4. Still, it was a fun ride throughout, and I'm glad to have taken the trip.
S1: B+
S2: A-
S3: A-
S4: A+
S5: B+
S6: B
S7: B+
AoS overall: A-
Apart from Mack being totally hidden in his opening shot, this is awesome, and should definitely be added to all streaming versions of the finale!
And, of course, this is show is primarily about the ride; I like to call it a perpetual motion machine. S7 was probably the best since S4, and the time-hopping added a lot, especially the always-delightful Agent Sousa (even if I remain on Team Peggy/Sousa even after Endgame and this). Reviving John Garrett with James Paxton was an inspired move, but ultimately, Nathaniel Malick and the Chronicoms became rather tiresome, as did Izel and Sarge and Kasius before them. Ultimately Aida/Ophelia was the last of the genuinely compelling villains, but our heroes were so charismatic, that the weak baddies were rarely big problems outside of finales.
I kinda wish that these past few seasons, ideally after S4, had gotten even weirder - stranding the crew in a faraway realm of space and time permanently, maybe, rather than carrying on more or less as before, but with even fewer MCU connections. Much like Seasons 4 and 5 of The Last Ship being solid, yet lesser than (and superfluous to) its first three years, I could see ending a future AoS rewatch with the high point that was S4. Still, it was a fun ride throughout, and I'm glad to have taken the trip.
S1: B+
S2: A-
S3: A-
S4: A+
S5: B+
S6: B
S7: B+
AoS overall: A-
Apart from Mack being totally hidden in his opening shot, this is awesome, and should definitely be added to all streaming versions of the finale!
After watching through it a second time I’d probably rank seasons: 2,3,5,4,7,1,6.
Season 7 I liked what they did in individual episodes but the overall arc wasn’t very cohesive. It felt like they handwaved all the other stuff the Chronicoms could have done by saying “Oh the time stream says it wouldn’t work”. And they never explained why the Chronicoms thought not only Earth was their only settling option, but they couldn’t make some kind of deal to peaceably settle.
They also just threw out there that they made a Davis Chronicom which should have had all kinds of broad philosophical implications they ignored. If they’re going to throw out there they established the precedent of making robot duplicates of every dead person they like it deserves more discussion than a five second goodbye scene.
Season 6 is easily my least favorite. Besides that Sarge and Izel were just not good villains. It got bizarre to the point of “Putting a hat on a hat”. One too many degrees of silliness.
I appreciated the way season 5 was orchestrated more on the second viewing than the first.
Season 7 I liked what they did in individual episodes but the overall arc wasn’t very cohesive. It felt like they handwaved all the other stuff the Chronicoms could have done by saying “Oh the time stream says it wouldn’t work”. And they never explained why the Chronicoms thought not only Earth was their only settling option, but they couldn’t make some kind of deal to peaceably settle.
They also just threw out there that they made a Davis Chronicom which should have had all kinds of broad philosophical implications they ignored. If they’re going to throw out there they established the precedent of making robot duplicates of every dead person they like it deserves more discussion than a five second goodbye scene.
Season 6 is easily my least favorite. Besides that Sarge and Izel were just not good villains. It got bizarre to the point of “Putting a hat on a hat”. One too many degrees of silliness.
I appreciated the way season 5 was orchestrated more on the second viewing than the first.
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More like the precedent of making duplicates of every dead person Simmons likes or is liked by someone who Simmons owes a favor. They only revived/duplicated/impostered Davis because Simmons promised Piper anything she could imagine in exchange for watching over the pod with her kid.
Which is also ethically fraught, but solves the "AoS cured death" issue.
Chloe Bennet has tested positive for covid-19.
https://screenrant.com/agents-shiel...H6ZLBT0JMPnqRw2BE_Rs4fPg9vJwyMh1fU16SRUAFzq1w
https://screenrant.com/agents-shiel...H6ZLBT0JMPnqRw2BE_Rs4fPg9vJwyMh1fU16SRUAFzq1w
Damn, she's symptomatic, too. Good luck to her and her family. I hope everyone pulls through.
deserves better.
I just finished a massive binge rewatch of the whole of Agents of SHIELD, culminating in my first-time viewing of most of season 7. (I watched the first two and a half episodes on the ABC streaming site, but it was glitchy and I gave up when it overheated and shut down my laptop.) It would've been a more ideal experience if I could've rewatched the relevant MCU movies in the first three seasons, as well as Agent Carter, but I managed without them.
The final season was pretty good, better than the sixth. They did some fun nostalgia bits -- I loved the vintage title cards, the black-and-white noir episode, the 1970s main title sequence and theme arrangement, etc. (though the '80s Deke-Mack episode went a bit overboard on the pop culture smorgasbord). The premise didn't make much sense -- the Chronicoms originally wanted time travel to prevent their homeworld's destruction, but suddenly they wanted to take over Earth instead, and surely there were better ways to take over Earth in the past than just a laser focus on destroying SHIELD. But it was just an excuse for a fun trip down memory lane and a nice chance to put a bow on elements from the series's past, like Jiaying and John Garrett.
The MVP of the season may well have been Joel Stoffer as Enoch. He was a terrific character, funny yet poignant. And Sousa was a pretty good addition to the team; it's cool that they found a way to salvage him from the Agent Carter cast.
The emphasis on how the characters weren't the same people anymore was pretty good, but there were parts that didn't seem to work. The controversy over Coulson's LMD status was handled unevenly; everyone pretty much seemed to stop worrying about it after a couple of weeks, and Coulson went inconsistently from just being okay with it to being suddenly angsty about it in the time loop episode to deciding a couple of episodes later that he liked who he was now. Also, turning May into an empath was an odd choice. When we saw her emotionally dead and then had a panic attack in Area 51, at first I thought it was PTSD from being killed and then battling Izel's people, but it was just this inexplicable new superpower. That was kind of weak. Although I liked how her empathic power paid off in the finale.
Incidentally, I found it inconsistent that Mack was perfectly okay accepting the reality of the duplicate Flint that the monolith created from Mack and Yo-Yo's secondhand memories of the kid, yet resisted the reality of the LMD Coulson created from his actual brain scan. The idea that Flint's existence is permanent is kind of weird too. He's enrolled at the academy now? If he's a monolith construct, then shouldn't he disintegrate if struck hard enough, like the original constructs? Not very good if he's training for combat. (Sarge was unkillable, but I presume that's because of the monster inhabiting the Coulson construct.)
The corridors of the Chronicom ship looked very familiar to me, like they were repurposed from some other show's or movie's sets. But in that interview posted several pages back, the producers said the corridor sets were their own. Weird. Maybe just the rows of wall lights that looked so familiar to me were recycled.
I think this may be the most reasonable explanation. If anything, it could be said that the timeline split when Robin got her Inhuman power, because she was receiving information from the future that caused the divergence. Or at least it occurred when the Monolith reached back from the future to yank the team out of time.
The alternative possibility is that both seasons 6 and 7 happened in the post-Snap world (since there's no ignoring the references to Thanos's invasion in season 5), but the team just got lucky and avoided any losses (except maybe the Koenigs, who didn't appear in season 6). I find it plausible that in the first year after the Snap, people might be trying to ignore it and pretend life was going on as normal, and it took a few more years for the lasting despair seen in Endgame to set in.
However, the problem with this theory is that it puts the team in c. 2020 with the knowledge of how to travel through time and the resources to pull it off, so they should've been able to undo the Snap years before the Avengers did. That's probably the best argument in favor of them being in an alternate timeline.
Still, either way, I'm glad that at the end, the show did align with the Endgame alternate-timelines model instead of the usual, nonsensical "overwriting history" model that they seemed to be leaning toward at the start of the season.
The Confederacy didn't want to conquer or destroy Earth, just get gravitonium and Inhumans from Hale and go on their way. In the original timeline, maybe they just succeeded in that.
I believe we saw him materialize using the same visual effect used for the team's return from the future, rather than the slower effect used for the assembly of a monolith construct.
In the former instance, Enoch was trying to avoid hurting May, so he was holding himself back. In the latter, he was programmed to prevent Jemma from regaining her memories at any cost, so he went all-out.
EDIT: Incidentally, one thing I discovered in my binge rewatch is that Glenn Talbot had a much larger footprint on the series than I remembered. I'd thought that he'd been absent for a while before returning in season 5, but he was one of the most prominent recurring characters from late season 1 onward. And he had a pretty amazing character arc, going from an antagonist to a grudging ally to a friend, and finally a tragic villain. He went from a joke character to a very moving one.
The final season was pretty good, better than the sixth. They did some fun nostalgia bits -- I loved the vintage title cards, the black-and-white noir episode, the 1970s main title sequence and theme arrangement, etc. (though the '80s Deke-Mack episode went a bit overboard on the pop culture smorgasbord). The premise didn't make much sense -- the Chronicoms originally wanted time travel to prevent their homeworld's destruction, but suddenly they wanted to take over Earth instead, and surely there were better ways to take over Earth in the past than just a laser focus on destroying SHIELD. But it was just an excuse for a fun trip down memory lane and a nice chance to put a bow on elements from the series's past, like Jiaying and John Garrett.
The MVP of the season may well have been Joel Stoffer as Enoch. He was a terrific character, funny yet poignant. And Sousa was a pretty good addition to the team; it's cool that they found a way to salvage him from the Agent Carter cast.
The emphasis on how the characters weren't the same people anymore was pretty good, but there were parts that didn't seem to work. The controversy over Coulson's LMD status was handled unevenly; everyone pretty much seemed to stop worrying about it after a couple of weeks, and Coulson went inconsistently from just being okay with it to being suddenly angsty about it in the time loop episode to deciding a couple of episodes later that he liked who he was now. Also, turning May into an empath was an odd choice. When we saw her emotionally dead and then had a panic attack in Area 51, at first I thought it was PTSD from being killed and then battling Izel's people, but it was just this inexplicable new superpower. That was kind of weak. Although I liked how her empathic power paid off in the finale.
Incidentally, I found it inconsistent that Mack was perfectly okay accepting the reality of the duplicate Flint that the monolith created from Mack and Yo-Yo's secondhand memories of the kid, yet resisted the reality of the LMD Coulson created from his actual brain scan. The idea that Flint's existence is permanent is kind of weird too. He's enrolled at the academy now? If he's a monolith construct, then shouldn't he disintegrate if struck hard enough, like the original constructs? Not very good if he's training for combat. (Sarge was unkillable, but I presume that's because of the monster inhabiting the Coulson construct.)
The corridors of the Chronicom ship looked very familiar to me, like they were repurposed from some other show's or movie's sets. But in that interview posted several pages back, the producers said the corridor sets were their own. Weird. Maybe just the rows of wall lights that looked so familiar to me were recycled.
I think this may be the most reasonable explanation. If anything, it could be said that the timeline split when Robin got her Inhuman power, because she was receiving information from the future that caused the divergence. Or at least it occurred when the Monolith reached back from the future to yank the team out of time.
The alternative possibility is that both seasons 6 and 7 happened in the post-Snap world (since there's no ignoring the references to Thanos's invasion in season 5), but the team just got lucky and avoided any losses (except maybe the Koenigs, who didn't appear in season 6). I find it plausible that in the first year after the Snap, people might be trying to ignore it and pretend life was going on as normal, and it took a few more years for the lasting despair seen in Endgame to set in.
However, the problem with this theory is that it puts the team in c. 2020 with the knowledge of how to travel through time and the resources to pull it off, so they should've been able to undo the Snap years before the Avengers did. That's probably the best argument in favor of them being in an alternate timeline.
Still, either way, I'm glad that at the end, the show did align with the Endgame alternate-timelines model instead of the usual, nonsensical "overwriting history" model that they seemed to be leaning toward at the start of the season.
The Confederacy didn't want to conquer or destroy Earth, just get gravitonium and Inhumans from Hale and go on their way. In the original timeline, maybe they just succeeded in that.
I believe we saw him materialize using the same visual effect used for the team's return from the future, rather than the slower effect used for the assembly of a monolith construct.
In the former instance, Enoch was trying to avoid hurting May, so he was holding himself back. In the latter, he was programmed to prevent Jemma from regaining her memories at any cost, so he went all-out.
EDIT: Incidentally, one thing I discovered in my binge rewatch is that Glenn Talbot had a much larger footprint on the series than I remembered. I'd thought that he'd been absent for a while before returning in season 5, but he was one of the most prominent recurring characters from late season 1 onward. And he had a pretty amazing character arc, going from an antagonist to a grudging ally to a friend, and finally a tragic villain. He went from a joke character to a very moving one.
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Not sure I trust the source so I'll believe it when I see it, but I would so love for this to be true.
https://geekositymag.com/marvels-agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-discussed-to-return-on-disney/
https://geekositymag.com/marvels-agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-discussed-to-return-on-disney/
Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. But I've never heard of that site and their sources are "insiders" so I'm not holding my breath.
Of course, I want it true along with the Netflix shows, but there are already so many new shows on the docket that it seems unlikely at this point.
Of course, I want it true along with the Netflix shows, but there are already so many new shows on the docket that it seems unlikely at this point.
