Agents of Shield - Season 4

[Christopher]

I think that's a pat and easy answer, too. As I said:

These are the types of people who'd consider it downright blasphemous to talk about making comics more like another medium.

Good point. I guess I have to concede that one.

Still, I could use a little help. What are some other conventions that comics used for a long time but evolved away from? (And nobody mention Superman's trunks.) I imagine there's a lot less use these days of long, stilted expository dialogue passages, especially in the middle of jumps or kicks. Less use of characters redundantly explaining how their powers work or what the Bottle City of Kandor is every time it comes up. But those are changes in how dialogue itself is written, not so much in the stylistic presentation. Well, naturally, comics art has gotten more detailed, the colors more elaborate, although in recent years there seems to have been a trend back toward cleaner, more cartoony art styles, not just in young-skewing books like The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel and Batman '66, but in stuff like Daredevil and Hawkeye as well. But what about more functional stylistic devices? Hmm, let's see, you don't often have comics panels pointing to the next panel, like they often did in the Golden Age. New techniques have been added, like on-panel captions identifying characters at their first appearance so that they don't have to be introduced through stilted dialogue (a technique also used in some movies, particularly in Japan -- Shin Godzilla used it constantly). So I guess there has been an ongoing evolution, and the shift away from thought balloons is part of that. It still seems a bit arbitrary to me, though.

One older convention I miss is the use of conversational narration and subtitles where the writers speak directly to the audience, especially the personalized way that Stan Lee did it. I think there was a fair amount of that in Silver/Bronze Age DC as well, though in a more impersonal way. It was goofy, yes, but it was fun. Although I think we are getting a bit of a resurgence of that in some of the recent stuff, like the hilarious page-bottom captions in Squirrel Girl, and the comical first-person monologues in books like Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye and Batgirl (of Burnside) help bring in that personal touch in a different way.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Sooo....getting back to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D....

However considering what Daisy has gone through over a short period she shouldn't be anything but angst at all should should be in a VA hospital treatment along with others suffering PTSD.

In a few short years she has been arrested by SHIELD. Found out she was sleeping with a Nazi wing Hydra. Was a combatant in the SHIELD versus Hydra war. Lost a best friend trying to save her in the event which gave her super powers. Found her father was a batshit insane killer. Found out her mother was an evil megalomaniac. Had her mother try to suck the very life out of her and watched her father kill her mother. Get infected by Hive's sway and even when the physical component allowing Hive to push her was removed the addiction, by Lash/Andrew who died trying to save her the need is still there as seen by James suffering the same fate. And then have another boyfriend push pass her on a suicide mission.

Yeah, I agree she has good reason to have dark cloud over her, but I don't think the writers have handled her response very well. Instead of mournful and moody, she comes off as whiny and self-absorbed, and her wardrobe and goth make-up doesn't help any because it feels like it's screaming "SEE! She's moody!"

Although I don't remember what she said, but May's brief talk with Daisy about how she's handling everything really hit it on the nail for me.

It's a pity really because I was just beginning to like Daisy last season after largely not liking her (a combination of weak writing and merely adequate acting).

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, I agree she has good reason to have dark cloud over her, but I don't think the writers have handled her response very well. Instead of mournful and moody, she comes off as whiny and self-absorbed, and her wardrobe and goth make-up doesn't help any because it feels like it's screaming "SEE! She's moody!"

Although I don't remember what she said, but May's brief talk with Daisy about how she's handling everything really hit it on the nail for me.

It's a pity really because I was just beginning to like Daisy last season after largely not liking her (a combination of weak writing and merely adequate acting).

At the risk of being shallow, it's the goth look that bothers me the most. When it cropped up in last season's epilogue I'd assumed it was just a disguise, but they seem to be running with it. I just think Daisy is a little old (late 20's IIRC?) to be going though a mopey goth phase. I'd expect a grow-up to deal with this kind of thing in a less superficially juvenile way. If nothing else it's a little impractical for what she's doing to have her face caked in make-up.

Not that I think she's handling herself well in otherwise, but I buy it as a logical result of personal guilt. I think I made this point a few weeks back, but it's not as many seem to think that she's upset at loosing people, so much as she feels *responsible* for those people being lost. Hence the solo act.
Also worth remembering she grew up an orphan, got bounced around the foster system, eventually found and in quick succession lost her parents who both turned out to be not what they first appeared. Add to that her falling for a guy who turns out to be a psychopath and her other squeeze ending up sacrificing himself after she was semi-brainwashed...clearly that's going to mess anyone up.
This to me says fear of rejection and fear of attachment (a rather vicious combination) the irrational feeling that one is cursed somehow or there is something inherently wrong with oneself. Mix that with survivors guilt and you have yourself one hell of a neuroses cocktail.

 

[JD]

The conversation here inspired me to flip through some of my comics to compare the styles and I noticed that between the big two Marvel uses a lot more narration than DC overall, except the two team books I have, The New Avengers and The Runaways.
The tie ins, Star Trek, Star Trek, and Farscape didn't use much although a few did have bit.
The creator owned comics I flipped through from Vertigo, Image and Boom! seemed to be a big mixture. The first or second of the Wicked and The Divine had a whole scene that was all narration, but then the rest of the first two or three didn't have any at all. Lumberjanes had none at all, but that's another ensemble book, so it makes sense that they at least wouldn't use first persons narration, although third could theoretically have worked. American Vampire had some here and there, while Sandman had a lot.

 

[jbny67]

What are some other conventions that comics used for a long time but evolved away from? (And nobody mention Superman's trunks.)

Batman's trunks

 

[Silvercrest]

Mandatory weaknesses.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Just saw something that reminded me of this conversation about the various types of comic balloons and captions. Watching the second episode of Luke Cage...somebody gets a text, and they show what's in the text in little word balloons coming out of the phone. Never saw that before.

 

[Christopher]

Just saw something that reminded me of this conversation about the various types of comic balloons and captions. Watching the second episode of Luke Cage...somebody gets a text, and they show what's in the text in little word balloons coming out of the phone. Never saw that before.

I guess you don't watch Sherlock, then. That pretty much started the practice of showing texts and other phone-screen contents superimposed onscreen. I've seen several other shows adopt the practice since. I think maybe iZombie has done it. Apparently some movies have too: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PopUpTexting

 

[The Old Mixer]

These specifically looked like word balloons, with the little tail or whatever you'd call it pointing at the phone.

 

[Christopher]

These specifically looked like word balloons, with the little tail or whatever you'd call it pointing at the phone.

Well, that's the style that a lot of texts are rendered in. So it was basically doing the same thing the other shows have done, superimposing the phone screen graphics onto the image.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Bottom line is getting word balloons onscreen in live action...kinda reminds me of...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[RJDiogenes]

Now imagine for a second if this situation applied to written prose. If the first printed books ever were meant for children and the more mature titles came later, would it be reasonable to say "why can't Spot the Dog be in 'The Colour Purple'? Are the authors ashamed of the medium's origins?" Of course not. It'd be like saying "the Mona Lisa's lack of crayon rainbows is disrespectful" or "Why can't Oscar the Grouch commentate on election news?!" (Actually, I'd totally watch that!)

Well, then they'd be getting rid of superheroes altogether. But independent and underground comix all used the same conventions, as far as I can remember. Bode, Bagge, and Crumb all used thought balloons, I'm pretty sure. Although I can't say I ever made note of it, because I really never gave it a second thought.

Comic books aren't e genre, they're a medium and as the medium has grown, it's attained a larger audience to the point where these days, most of the readers are adults. As such there's more books aimed at that demographic than at younger readers. Now I'm sure if one were to have a look at the books actually aimed at younger readers (mostly cartoon & video game tie-in I imagine) as those old classic Gold & Silver Age comics were, many of the old trends are still there in full force, thought bubbles and all.

But what about non-superhero comics, like Love & Rockets, if such things even still exist? Have they abandoned the thought balloon as well?

Just saw something that reminded me of this conversation about the various types of comic balloons and captions. Watching the second episode of Luke Cage...somebody gets a text, and they show what's in the text in little word balloons coming out of the phone. Never saw that before.

Sounds like Pop-Up Videos on VH1.

 

[Reverend]

But what about non-superhero comics, like Love & Rockets, if such things even still exist? Have they abandoned the thought balloon as well?

If you're referring to creator owned indie titles in general then honestly it's down to the tastes of the writers & artists as well as the tonal demands of the individual books. That's kind of the appeal of those books as there's no corporate publisher oversight.

As I said before, if one were to have a look at modern comics specifically aimed at children then I'm certain some of those old conventions are still in full evidence. It's just that they're not as popular as they used to be because the vast majority of the comic book readership is now over 40 and the industry as a whole has been shrinking for decades.

After all, why would kids want the old funnybooks in a world where they have downloadable cartoons on-demand, home movies on blu-ray and video games on their phones? It seems the entertainment market has changed somewhat in the last 70 years. Who knew!?

 

[YLu]

Still, I could use a little help. What are some other conventions that comics used for a long time but evolved away from?

Logos appearing in word balloons is what comes to mind. Like Superman saying, "This is a job for Superman," with the word "Superman" appearing as the same logo as on the cover instead of as regular text. Sometimes there'd even be a tiny (tm) next to it!

 

[Christopher]

Logos appearing in word balloons is what comes to mind. Like Superman saying, "This is a job for Superman," with the word "Superman" appearing as the same logo as on the cover instead of as regular text. Sometimes there'd even be a tiny (tm) next to it!

That's still being done, although often as a send-up of the practice. ComicsAlliance did a column about it just a week ago.

 

[Starscream2112]

I wonder if this will affect AOS being renewed for anther season.

http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/785933-marvels-the-inhumans-series

 

[Captain Craig]

I wonder if this will affect AOS being renewed for anther season.

http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/785933-marvels-the-inhumans-series

Doubt it. I'd wager at the minimum AoS has a S5 in it. Beyond that is yet to be seen based on story direction and ratings of course. It's got enough for syndication at that point.
Then there is the Netflix/Disney merger rumor that could play a factor.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Besides, Inhumans is only one story element of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

What Netflix/Disney merger rumor? Source?

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ It's just a rumor at this point.

As I said before, if one were to have a look at modern comics specifically aimed at children then I'm certain some of those old conventions are still in full evidence. It's just that they're not as popular as they used to be because the vast majority of the comic book readership is now over 40 and the industry as a whole has been shrinking for decades.

But what I'm trying to figure out is if the creators of adult, non-superhero comics feel the same way, or if this is just something that applies to capes.

After all, why would kids want the old funnybooks in a world where they have downloadable cartoons on-demand, home movies on blu-ray and video games on their phones? It seems the entertainment market has changed somewhat in the last 70 years. Who knew!?

Yeah, new media are kind of a mixed blessing if the old ones get replaced.

 

[Reverend]

But what I'm trying to figure out is if the creators of adult, non-superhero comics feel the same way, or if this is just something that applies to capes.

I don't read a lot of comics (superhero or otherwise) but what I've seen of the handful of non-superhero indie titles I have read are as I've said previously: it entirely depends on the sensibilities of the book in question. 'Saga' for example has a very different style and tone to say 'The Walking Dead' or 'Fables'. If you really want to know for sure then you'll just have to god see for yourself.