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Agents of Shield - Season 4

If people want to read a book with thought bubbles, you should go out and buy Black Panther: World of Wakanda #1. The first story is full of traditional thought bubbles as if it's 1965. Mind you, I don't think that first story is particularly good, but I can't say the thought bubbles are necessarily the reason.
 
Okay, here's a question: Let's say you're doing a comic where characters are communicating either telepathically or through some kind of cybernetic brain implant. So they're basically thinking their dialogue to each other. How would you render that in a comic book, if not through thought balloons? (And how would you differentiate the thoughts the character on-panel was sending vs. those they were receiving? Maybe have connecting dots in the former case but not the latter? Or use a different font?)

This is something I've often wondered about, because the main character in my novel Only Superhuman communicates with her AI sidekick through a neural implant, and I've often hoped I'd get to do a comic-book adaptation or sequel. In prose, <I convey her outgoing thoughts in normal type inside angled brackets>, <and incoming thoughts in italics inside angled brackets>, equivalently to how dialogue being heard over a phone or radio is often italicized in prose. And I've wondered how to express those if I did a comic. If I were discouraged from using conventional thought balloons, what are the alternatives?
 
Okay, here's a question: Let's say you're doing a comic where characters are communicating either telepathically or through some kind of cybernetic brain implant. So they're basically thinking their dialogue to each other. How would you render that in a comic book, if not through thought balloons? (And how would you differentiate the thoughts the character on-panel was sending vs. those they were receiving? Maybe have connecting dots in the former case but not the latter? Or use a different font?)

This is something I've often wondered about, because the main character in my novel Only Superhuman communicates with her AI sidekick through a neural implant, and I've often hoped I'd get to do a comic-book adaptation or sequel. In prose, <I convey her outgoing thoughts in normal type inside angled brackets>, <and incoming thoughts in italics inside angled brackets>, equivalently to how dialogue being heard over a phone or radio is often italicized in prose. And I've wondered how to express those if I did a comic. If I were discouraged from using conventional thought balloons, what are the alternatives?
Either with the character holding his head from where he is:
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Or with special bubbles:
DQzGZIT.jpg
 
Holding their head would be hokey. Kinda the whole point of putting a comm implant in your brain is so you could go hands-free.

And special bubbles are a good idea, sure, but aren't thought balloons an example of exactly that?
 
Thought bubbles are a bit different than those though.

Of course, but that's the whole point -- that they are part of the larger category of specialized word balloons that are designed in a distinctive way to differentiate them from normal speech balloons. Of course the individual members of that category are different from each other as well, because being different is their purpose. But they all belong to the larger category of specialized balloons. So if other kinds of specialized balloon designs are still considered okay, then that seems to suggest that the objections to thought balloons specifically are based merely in the arbitrary fashions of the moment rather than any fundamental functional or structural issue.
 
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Again I say, as someone who has lettered comics, the difference is purely cosmetic. Functionally speaking, thought bubbles are identical to first person narrative boxes. The former indicates it's source with a bubble trail, much like a speach bubble callout, while the latter uses a distinctive colour, border and/or font.

From a practical standpoint, I think boxes work better because they're more compact and allow a bit more freedom when it comes to layout. It's easier to shove a box up in the corner or along the bottom of a panel without obstructing the art, while thought bubbles can very quickly start to clutter things up, especially if there's a combination of spoken dialogue and inner monologue. As a letterer, clutter is your mortal enemy.

The rules about scene changes to switch POV also generally apply here the same way they do in prose, though if you have to do it, it's a lot easier to pull off again, thanks to the use of distinctive colours & fonts. Still, it's fairly rare, even in comics to cross POV like that and of the times I've seen it in use, it's usually done as a gimmick. An example that leaps to mind is the 'Batman/Superman' book from about 10 years back. It would have all of Bruce's inner thoughts down one side of the page and Clark's down the other, intentionally juxtaposing each other's views and mindset. And I suppose Deadpool counts too, since his various monologues are functionally different characters, even if they're all inside his head.
 
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So if other kinds of specialized balloon designs are still considered okay, then that seems to suggest that the objections to thought balloons specifically are based merely in the arbitrary fashions of the moment rather than any fundamental functional or structural issue.

Well, it indicates the problem, if there is one, isn't with their form at least.

My theory: The issue is that they're not diegetic to the same extent word balloons (or telepathy balloons) are. With a word balloon, that's actually exactly what a character in-story is saying. But people don't actually articulate their thinking in neat, organized sentences, not usually -- we understand what's in a thought balloon is an interpretation, from thought to language, for the audience's sake. It's not what's *really* happening, in-story.

There's a similar difference on a visual level. We don't think about this much, but a word balloon isn't just a representation of what a character is saying. It represents the actual *physical sound* of those words. That's why we intuitively understand what it means when a word balloon is giant-sized, or when one's shape is rugged. Why we'd think it's weird if the tail of the balloon aimed not at a character's head (where the mouth is) but their foot or hand. Thought balloons, on the other hand... well, nobody's thoughts actually float or emanate out of their heads, the way a thought balloon does. The graphic depiction doesn't correspond to anything in-story.

So you have word balloons and thought balloons, these two storytelling tools that look so similar and often exist side by side in the same panel. However, in not one but two ways they exist on different diegetic "levels." My theory is that this contradiction creates a mild cognitive dissonance, and that this dissonance is why some people perceive thought balloons as awkward.
 
Again I say, as someone who has lettered comics, the difference is purely cosmetic. Functionally speaking, thought bubbles are identical to first person narrative boxes.

Which is pretty much my point -- that it's just a matter of style. One style isn't superior to the other, just different. I don't object to first-person narrative boxes, but I don't see why their use in some comics should preclude the use of thought balloons in other comics -- any more than, say, the use of electronic music in some TV/movie scores should preclude the use of orchestral music in others, or the use of both in various combinations. I don't see any reason why both stylistic options shouldn't remain on the table. Having more options to choose from is good.


From a practical standpoint, I think boxes work better because they allow a bit more freedom when it comes to layout. It's easier to shove a box up in the corner or along the bottom of a panel without obstructing the art, while thought bubbles can very quickly start to clutter things up, especially if there's a combination of spoken dialogue and inner monologue. As a letterer, clutter is your mortal enemy.

Isn't a lot of comics art designed with balloon placement in mind, though? I've seen lots of page thumbnails with the balloon placement roughed out from the start. And speech or thought balloons can be right on the top of a panel with a long "tail."

Plus, there can be occasions when you don't want a narrative box to be shoved off to the side. Sometimes their placement within the frame is important too -- for instance, the second illustration in this column, where one character's "internal monologue" text boxes are directly superimposed over another character's speech balloons, obscuring the words, in order to show that he's too absorbed with his own thoughts to hear what the other person is saying. Or in scenes where Deadpool is having a spoken conversation with one of his inner voices or with the narrator, you need to put the thought/narration boxes in between his speech balloons to show the sequence of the conversation.

The rules about scene changes to switch POV also generally apply here the same way they do in prose, though if you have to do it, it's a lot easier to pull off again, thanks to the use of distinctive colours & fonts. Still, it's fairly rare, even in comics to cross POV like that and of the times I've seen it in use, it's usually done as a gimmick. An example that leaps to mind is the 'Batman/Superman' book from about 10 years back. It would have all of Bruce's inner thoughts down one side of the page and Clark's down the other, intentionally juxtaposing each other's views and mindset.

Yeah, I've read some of those. It got annoying fairly quickly.



My theory: The issue is that they're not diegetic to the same extent word balloons (or telepathy balloons) are. With a word balloon, that's actually exactly what a character in-story is saying. But people don't actually articulate their thinking in neat, organized sentences, not usually -- we understand what's in a thought balloon is an interpretation, from thought to language, for the audience's sake. It's not what's *really* happening, in-story.

The same is true of italicized internal monologue in prose, though. I'm okay with the convention for that reason. Also, as I said earlier, sometimes I've wished that certain stilted dialogue passages in older comics had been put in thought balloons instead of speech balloons, because nobody would ever actually say such things aloud, and casting it as a "translation" of inner thoughts into words for the reader's benefit is more plausible.


There's a similar difference on a visual level. We don't think about this much, but a word balloon isn't just a representation of what a character is saying. It represents the actual *physical sound* of those words. That's why we intuitively understand what it means when a word balloon is giant-sized, or when one's shape is rugged. Why we'd think it's weird if the tail of the balloon aimed not at a character's head (where the mouth is) but their foot or hand. Thought balloons, on the other hand... well, nobody's thoughts actually float or emanate out of their heads, the way a thought balloon does. The graphic depiction doesn't correspond to anything in-story.

So you have word balloons and thought balloons, these two storytelling tools that look so similar and often exist side by side in the same panel. However, in not one but two ways they exist on different diegetic "levels." My theory is that this contradiction creates a mild cognitive dissonance, and that this dissonance is why some people perceive thought balloons as awkward.

Interesting thought... but couldn't you say that thought boxes and omniscient-narration boxes exist on different diegetic levels too, since only one is actually coming from the characters in the frame? Not a problem if your story is first-person narrated, but not all stories are.
 
Isn't a lot of comics art designed with balloon placement in mind, though? I've seen lots of page thumbnails with the balloon placement roughed out from the start. And speech or thought balloons can be right on the top of a panel with a long "tail."

In an ideal world, sure, but it's always a trade off between the script, the art and the final layout. If an artist knows they'll have to accommodate a crap-ton of thought bubbles, it limits what they can do on a given panel, which has a knock-on effect for the whole page. Using NBs instead makes it a lot easier to plan for and frees up more panel real-estate.

Plus, there can be occasions when you don't want a narrative box to be shoved off to the side. Sometimes their placement within the frame is important too -- for instance, the second illustration in this column, where one character's "internal monologue" text boxes are directly superimposed over another character's speech balloons, obscuring the words, in order to show that he's too absorbed with his own thoughts to hear what the other person is saying. Or in scenes where Deadpool is having a spoken conversation with one of his inner voices or with the narrator, you need to put the thought/narration boxes in between his speech balloons to show the sequence of the conversation.

The key phrase is "there can be". TBs are an inherently limited and limiting format. NBs allow for greater flexibility for artist, writer and letterer.
 
In an ideal world, sure, but it's always a trade off between the script, the art and the final layout. If an artist knows they'll have to accommodate a crap-ton of thought bubbles, it limits what they can do on a given panel, which has a knock-on effect for the whole page. Using NBs instead makes it a lot easier to plan for and frees up more panel real-estate.

I don't see it making that much difference, though. It's still a shape containing the same number of words. Maybe thought balloons do so a little less compactly due to the rounder, more irregular shape and the dots, but not by a huge extent.


The key phrase is "there can be". TBs are an inherently limited and limiting format. NBs allow for greater flexibility for artist, writer and letterer.

Flexibility is my point. Why absolutely ban one of the available options and thereby limit your range of choices? It just seems like a good idea to keep that tool in the drawer rather than throwing it away.
 
The same is true of italicized internal monologue in prose, though. I'm okay with the convention for that reason. Also, as I said earlier, sometimes I've wished that certain stilted dialogue passages in older comics had been put in thought balloons instead of speech balloons, because nobody would ever actually say such things aloud, and casting it as a "translation" of inner thoughts into words for the reader's benefit is more plausible.

Most novelists use that italicized text so economically that, personally, I actually *do* interpret it as rare instances where the protagonist is verbalizing their thinking to themselves, in their own head. When I see "No, he thought. Please, no," in prose, I take that to mean those specific words did run through the character's head, like a silent beseechment to fate or the universe. So for me at least, it's not the same thing.

Interesting thought... but couldn't you say that thought boxes and omniscient-narration boxes exist on different diegetic levels too, since only one is actually coming from the characters in the frame? Not a problem if your story is first-person narrated, but not all stories are.

Following my theory, I'd say those boxes being more distinct from word balloons -- both because of appearance and because not having a tail means they're free to be at a greater spatial remove -- makes it easier for the mind to treat them as two wholly separate things, operating on different levels.

Compare that to how a thought balloon will sometimes even actually flow out of a speech balloon (like below). That's practically inviting the brain to perceive them on the same level.

057uz9.jpg


(Now that I think about it, it's actually interesting how the reverse, a speech bubble flowing out from a thought bubble, seems a lot rarer. I wonder why that is, that one comes more naturally than the other.)

Flexibility is my point. Why absolutely ban one of the available options and thereby limit your range of choices? It just seems like a good idea to keep that tool in the drawer rather than throwing it away.

I don't think anyone is arguing they should be forbidden, just explaining the trend away from them.

Anyway, on a related note, if anyone wants to see an interesting take on thought bubbles and their usage, I suggest checking out Alan Moore and Rick Veitch's short story "Thinx" in TOMORROW STORIES #8. Talk about playing to the medium's unique strengths.

 
I don't see it making that much difference, though. It's still a shape containing the same number of words. Maybe thought balloons do so a little less compactly due to the rounder, more irregular shape and the dots, but not by a huge extent.

It adds up fast and every square millimetre of space counts. You're just going to have to trust my direct experience on this.

Flexibility is my point. Why absolutely ban one of the available options and thereby limit your range of choices? It just seems like a good idea to keep that tool in the drawer rather than throwing it away.

They're not banned, they're just not as preferred as that once were. The reason being as I've already explained is that NBs provide MORE flexibility than TBs. It's not that TBs don't have their uses or are never used, they are.
 
@YLu -- It should be pointed out that your Captain Marvel example came from a time when Bendis was, in this just pre-Secret Invasion era, laying out clues as to who was a Skrull and who actually was who they said they were.

Meaning, after the Elektra reveal, if you were to go back and read the issues building up to the reveal , if you saw a character's inner dialogue by way of say, thought balloons, you could be assured that they were who they said they were. If you went back and never saw that character's inner thoughts, then that character was a potential Skrull.
 
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Following my theory, I'd say those boxes being more distinct from word balloons -- both because of appearance and because not having a tail means they're free to be at a greater spatial remove -- makes it easier for the mind to treat them as two wholly separate things, operating on different levels.

But in this instance, I'm not comparing them to word balloons. I'm comparing "thought" text boxes to narration text boxes sharing the same panels and pages. I'm saying that those two types of text boxes also exist on different diegetic levels from each other. So if it's okay to do that, then why can't voice balloons and thought balloons also coexist while operating on different diegetic levels?

Compare that to how a thought balloon will sometimes even actually flow out of a speech balloon (like below). That's practically inviting the brain to perceive them on the same level.

And I would say that's a good thing. After all, it reflects how we think. Within our own heads, there isn't that great a separation between our spoken thoughts and our subvocalized thoughts. The words come first, and sometimes we choose to say them out loud and sometimes we choose not to. There isn't that huge a separation between them. Fiction is about inviting us to empathize with the characters, to imagine ourselves in their place. So I don't agree that comics should favor an "outside" perspective where there's a sharp differentiation from what others can hear and what the character thinks.

On a less big-picture level, just looking at a specific instance like in your Carol Danvers example, I'd say that if a character's spoken words and unspoken thoughts are written to flow directly into each other in that way, then putting them in connected bubbles conveys that flow of ideas better than segregating them in two separate types of graphic presentation.


(Now that I think about it, it's actually interesting how the reverse, a speech bubble flowing out from a thought bubble, seems a lot rarer. I wonder why that is, that one comes more naturally than the other.)

I'm sure I've seen examples of that.


I don't think anyone is arguing they should be forbidden, just explaining the trend away from them.

Okay, then. It's just that people often take such "trends" to an absolutist extreme and I don't think that's a good idea. Like how feature-animation studios have completely abandoned traditional 2D animation because 3D computer-animated movies were performing better overall. So I like to stand up for the underdogs.
 
Personally I don't care for thought balloons. Show, don't tell. (in dialogue)
Sometimes dialogue is telling, not showing. Watchmen eschewed the use of sound effect blurbs, which worked fine for action scenes, but led to one memorably clunky exchange between the police detectives to tell the reader that a phone was ringing.
 
Holding their head would be hokey. Kinda the whole point of putting a comm implant in your brain is so you could go hands-free.

And special bubbles are a good idea, sure, but aren't thought balloons an example of exactly that?
The telepathic communication bubbles have existed for a long time too. They're basically a combination of the radio/tv/electronic communication speech bubble (which is communication over a long distance) and the thought bubble. Obviously, with no thought bubble, they lose that frame of reference for what it's going for, but it's always been a special bubble.
 
There have always been various kinds of specialty or customized word and thought balloons. Speaking, thinking, and yelling are the most common. Whispering has been denoted by a dashed border. Then there's the telepathic one just mentioned. Loud and quiet voices can also be denoted by font size (for example, a grief-stricken character may get a small font as opposed to dashed edges, which is usually reserved for stealthiness). And, of course, some characters get their own custom balloons to indicate a certain uniqueness or oddness to their voice-- the most obvious example that I can think of is Vision's yellow, square balloons that indicate his robotic voice (I don't know if they still do that, either, or even if the Vision still exists). Another example is the spooky voice balloon border used by Horror-themed characters like Ghost Rider or Dracula. All of these are tools available to the medium that communicate important information to the reader-- it's limiting to the creators to not use them.
 
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