Yes, exactly.
Aliens are physically possible in our universe right now. Whether they even remotely look or behave anything like that is besides the point. Aliens aren't faeries...except when they are.
Agents of Shield - Season 4
- Thread starter MarsWeeps
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Yes, exactly.
Aliens are physically possible in our universe right now. Whether they even remotely look or behave anything like that is besides the point. Aliens aren't faeries...except when they are.
Oh, my mistake then.
Sure you can, there are plenty of stories placing magic in a grounded setting. One of the most recent, and most grounded would probably be The Magicians. Lots of Urban Fantasy stories are set in an otherwise grounded realistic world, and often deal with the collision of these more grounded elements and the fantasy stuff. Outside of the stuff that takes place in a completely made up world, like the Kate Daniels, Hollows, or True Blood/Southern Vampire Mysteries series, I'd say the majority of them probably fall into this category. Hell, it looks like Dr. Strange will more or less fall into that category if we look at it as it's own thing and ignore the aliens, Hulks, ect. in the other Marvel movies.
We weren't talking about "grounded" settings, just about blending genres, putting sci-fi and fantasy in the same fictional universe. Both the MCU and the Berlanti DCU chose to ease audiences into one idea at a time -- first non-powered heroes, then science-empowered heroes, then aliens, then magic (although the Berlantiverse introduced magic before aliens, or around the same time if you count Supergirl).
eh- yeah, in the Dresden Files. Harry has to work within a magical system which is described well. That system sometimes is an essential plot point in the story, and things which seem to be outside that system in the stories are eventually resolved. That is what makes the series so enjoyable for me- a lot better that Potter waving a wand and muttering some nonsensical latin sounding phrases.
I am hoping the Magical elements integrate with the Marvel universe well. I have only read some of the comics so most of the well known characters and their backstories are new to me.
True, the only magical confines seem to be the Wizard Council's rules, but how magic works and any boundaries within magic isn't defined. In other books, such as the Allie Beckstrom world, there is a penalty for using magic. Using magic creates a "debt" and the user has to decide how to accept that debt; such as assigning it as a headache to oneself or unethically to another. Harry Dresden sometimes overexerts himself magically, so maybe that counts as a sort of rule of magic.
Those are consequences, not 'rules.'
The rules of magic are just like the rules of physics. Magic Type 1 can do A, B, and C, but not X, Y, or Z. That's a rule. For example, in the Shadowrun setting, sorcery cannot be used to alter the fabric of the space/time continuum, it cannot divine the future, and it cannot summon or banish spirits. It can, however, conjure elemental fire out of thin air, transform you into a ferocious bunny, and heal you of your wounds. There's also rules about how difficult it is to affect different types of targets, how different locations can affect it based upon the emotional imprint it has, and what type of security measures exist to protect you from it.
None of which, of course, makes any sense whatsoever from a scientific standpoint, especially since it all depends upon the belief system and willpower of the magician creating the effects. But the rules are definitely real and definitely exist, as do the normal laws of physics allowing firearms, computers, vehicles, chemistry, and other forms of technology to continue working just fine.
So no, having one or the other in a setting does not render the other one pointless. That's just an absurd notion in and of itself.
The rules of magic are just like the rules of physics. Magic Type 1 can do A, B, and C, but not X, Y, or Z. That's a rule. For example, in the Shadowrun setting, sorcery cannot be used to alter the fabric of the space/time continuum, it cannot divine the future, and it cannot summon or banish spirits. It can, however, conjure elemental fire out of thin air, transform you into a ferocious bunny, and heal you of your wounds. There's also rules about how difficult it is to affect different types of targets, how different locations can affect it based upon the emotional imprint it has, and what type of security measures exist to protect you from it.
None of which, of course, makes any sense whatsoever from a scientific standpoint, especially since it all depends upon the belief system and willpower of the magician creating the effects. But the rules are definitely real and definitely exist, as do the normal laws of physics allowing firearms, computers, vehicles, chemistry, and other forms of technology to continue working just fine.
So no, having one or the other in a setting does not render the other one pointless. That's just an absurd notion in and of itself.
Marvel just added a whole bunch digital versions of Son of Satan comics to Comixology and a collected edition is being added to Google Play tomorrow. I can't help but wonder if that could be a clue to AoS's future, since they often seem to add comics that specifically relate to the shows and movies. I guess it could be due to Doctor Strange, but given what's going on in AoS that seems a lot more likely.
Dr. Strange is probably the more immediate reason, though they have said that they're about ready to start trotting out more of their supernatural based material in general. So it's probably as much to support that shift as anything.
Once 'Infinity War', 'Guardians of the Galaxy Vol2' and 'Captain Marvel' rolls around I'd fully expect to see them dropping a lot of the old cosmic back catalogue too. Doesn't necessarily mean we're going to get an appearance from Beta Ray Bill on AoS though.
Because the DC universe isn't Star Wars perhaps? You may as well argue "if He-Man did it, why not Supergirl?"
Apples and oranges mate.
As I said before, I think it's because comics have historically been a less respected medium with the general public, and so they had to approach things more carefully in order to win the audience's acceptance. If you have less trust or respect to begin with, then you can't get away with as much as you otherwise could, not until you earn it. So it's not an equal comparison between comics-based franchises and other franchises.
Also, Star Wars did not present its fantasy elements as "magic." Syntactically (i.e. in terms of underlying narrative structure and substance), SW is a sword-and-sorcery fantasy, but it used the semantics (the surface elements and terminology) of space opera and sci-fi, and it referred to its mystical element as "the Force," a cosmic "energy field" binding all life. And then the prequels tried to make it even more sci-fi by bringing midi-chlorians into it. Generally a lot of sci-fi productions can get away with including effectively magical phenomena if they label them as "psionics" or "advanced alien science" or the like. But setting something up as a sci-fi, technological universe and then bringing in phenomena that you explicitly describe as magical is a semantic mismatch that could confuse audience members unaccustomed to such blending, even if they'd be perfectly fine with the same phenomena under a more semantically fitting label like telekinesis or cosmic energy fields.
You're probably right, but I think what I talked about did happen at least once. The character's comics started popping up on Comixology, ect. then shortly after they announced they were doing an MCU version of them.Dr. Strange is probably the more immediate reason, though they have said that they're about ready to start trotting out more of their supernatural based material in general. So it's probably as much to support that shift as anything.
Once 'Infinity War', 'Guardians of the Galaxy Vol2' and 'Captain Marvel' rolls around I'd fully expect to see them dropping a lot of the old cosmic back catalogue too. Doesn't necessarily mean we're going to get an appearance from Beta Ray Bill on AoS though.
Well, except for that pesky quote by Han Solo.
Arrow started grounded because it was coming off the heels of the very popular Dark Knight Trilogy, not because they thought audiences weren't ready for "comic book stuff." After all, a very successful Smallville had just ended and it was pretty full of weird stuff, especially in its latter seasons.
Once they made that initial choice of a grounded show really the only course of action was to ease into the supernatural elements, not because people wouldn't be able to deal with them or understand them, but because it would be pretty disjointed and unfocused to just immediately drop magic and space aliens into an overarching plot of a street vigilante fighting crime and corruption.
I dunno, I think it's just conventional wisdom that you need to start out more grounded before moving into the wilder stuff. Smallville did the same, trying to seem like a teen drama with paranormal elements at first, and only gradually folding in the more comic-book stuff, mostly later on. And the MCU started with Iron Man, which is relatively grounded. And Agents of SHIELD started out being a procedural about normal human agents before getting more heavily into the superhero stuff.
You know, maybe part of it is more about network/studio executives than about mass audiences. Execs tend to be cautious sorts, wary of anything that doesn't fit into conventional, proven formulas, because they're the ones who have to risk their money on these things. That's why so many genre shows start out looking like safe, comfortable procedurals or the like before gradually easing into more exotic or intense content. In the specific case of Arrow, it was a clear attempt to emulate Nolan's Batman, which in WB executives' minds was a proven example of successful superhero storytelling. So that was probably the best approach for Berlanti to start with in getting the execs to let him do a show. And once he'd proven to them that he could do a successful superhero show, the execs were willing to trust him more and let him push into the weirder stuff. But executives are a superstitious, cowardly lot, and so it takes time to convince them to take more and more steps into the fanciful and bizarre.
Same path was followed with the show 'Lucifer'- a procedural police show with some extras thrown in, when it got established they took the series into the direction they wanted all along.
There are plenty of other examples. Dollhouse started out looking like a "client-of-the-week" show about Echo using her programmed personalities to help out various people in need, but evolved into a hardcore science fiction epic about how the technology to copy and overwrite minds led to the collapse of civilization. Even Orphan Black started out looking like it was going to be a police procedural with Sarah pretending to be a cop and trying to keep her partner from finding out, but that status quo lasted barely four weeks. I figured out some years back that the first few episodes of a show are mostly about appeasing cautious execs, making the show look like it fits a safe, conventional formula so as to get it on the air, and it's only when you get past the first 5-6 episodes or so that a show really begins to establish its true identity.
Sometimes this can backfire, though, since the same conventionality that appeals to executives can alienate genre fans. Threshold lost viewers rapidly because the first few episodes seemed repetitive and formulaic, and was even pulled from the air with 4-5 episodes not yet shown -- but when they were finally aired on Syfy, literally the very first episode after cancellation began the show's aggressive move away from repetitive formula and toward what would've been a constantly changing status quo as the alien invaders got more and more successful (to the point that they were actually considering renaming the show each season -- Foothold for season 2 and Stronghold for S3). And Syfy's own 2007 Flash Gordon started out shying away from its alien-world premise and trying to emulate Smallville with a largely Earthbound approach, so by the time they moved away from that 7-8 episodes in and started embracing the Mongo side of the story more, eventually abandoning Earth altogether, they'd already lost most of their audience, and even though the last 2/3 of the season was vastly better than the first 1/3, most people never saw its improvement and it was cancelled. Both shows might've succeeded if they'd started out being the shows they ended up being, instead of trying to camouflage themselves as something safer and duller.
Looks like we're getting the old team back together, plus one, however temporary.
I loved the callback to Iron Man. I love it when Coulson is witty.
If "they're not incognito" is Daisy's only reason for not wearing her bracelets, then she has no one to blame but herself for her pain. I guess that's what she wants. Meh.
The vintage car chase was awesome and “I get his car now, right? Isn’t that how this works?” was perfect.
Is anyone else tired of the Watchdogs yet? Bleah.
I loved the callback to Iron Man. I love it when Coulson is witty.
If "they're not incognito" is Daisy's only reason for not wearing her bracelets, then she has no one to blame but herself for her pain. I guess that's what she wants. Meh.
The vintage car chase was awesome and “I get his car now, right? Isn’t that how this works?” was perfect.
Is anyone else tired of the Watchdogs yet? Bleah.
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The reasoning for Daisy not wearing the bracers is silly. "They're not exactly low profile". Like using her powers is? And paired with a long sleeve shirt they'd hardly be noticeable at all. It's not like they had glowy-blinky lights all over them or something. She's got enough of the Goth thing going on for the bracers to just look like a fashion choice.
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