Agents of Shield - Season 4

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by MarsWeeps, Mar 5, 2016.

  1. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    What implicit link?
     
  2. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, yes by sheer definition Mjolnir is indeed alien technology because 1) a hammer is a tool/weapon and all tools and weapons are technology. And 2) it was made by non-terrestrial beings (i.e. aliens.) We're even told how it was made: "forged in the heart of a dying star."

    Loki and Frigga used illusions. Basically bending light and projecting images. It's not like they manifested solid matter out of thin air. As for Heimdall's sight: he's an exceptional being even among his own kind who are already extremely exceptional by human standards and what he can do seems as much tied to his position at gatekeeper as anything intrinsic to his person. Remember that he said: "From here I can see nine realms and ten trillion souls." This implies he can't necessarily see them elsewhere. Also remember that Thor's extra abilities beyond his natural Asgardian longevity, strength and physical toughness were tied to his armor, of which Odin stripped him and set Mjolnir as the key to reactivating it all.
    Likewise it stands to reason that Heimdall's armor and helm give him enhanced perception, comprehension and through his sword a direct interface with the bifrost which can extend that across the universe.

    The quantum realm stuff in the third act. You can see the same four (or is it five?) dimensional tesseracting effect that's on full display in the new trailers. Plus I'm pretty sure the filmakers said there's an intentional connection there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
  3. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Hm, okay. I hadn't noticed the similarities between the two before. Certainly the first time I've heard that the filmmakers said there was an intentional link between the two.
     
  4. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    And don't get me started about people who spell his name "Ghostrider." It's two words, people. :)
     
  5. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There may be another comment from someone else on the production somewhere, but about 30 seconds googling relinquished this quote from Kevin Feige: -

    "If you look up the study of quantum mechanics, when you get down that small, as Hank Pym says, space time is meaningless, and there’s a lot of that stuff that applies to Doctor Strange. So this is sort of an appetizer for, ‘If you think this is weird…’"
    Just to re-emphasise though: I did only say there's an implicit link, not an explicit one.
     
  6. ITL

    ITL Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I used to read Ghost Rider when I was a kid in the 70s, loved it, and I like this new version. The actor sells it, the effects work well, good job all round.
     
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  7. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Regarding the new director: I think it's very telling that just about every character talks to him all through the episode, but we never actually see him for ourselves. That means they want us to know how the main characters feel about him first before we're able to form our own opinions, which to me just screams: "your expectations are going to be turned on their head."

    So no, there's no way this guy turns out to be "evil" or Hydra because it's all been done already...Unless he's a Skrull, because that would be cool. ;)

    I recall people doggedly insisting that Ward was somehow brainwashed and would somehow redeem himself. Then (mostly the same people) insisted that Bobbi would turn out to be a Hydra double agent. After that I think it was that Price and the ATCU would turn out to be Hydra.
    It seems they like to base their theories and form their opinions solely around concepts the show has already covered, rather than on anything even remotely original.

    My suspicion is that the new Director will be a hindrance, but only in a "Lawful Neutral" stickler for the rules kind of way and in keeping with the new status quo following the Accords. Now even that may only be a starting point and they could give him an arc that means he'll end up different (and also most likely dead, if I'm honest.)
     
  8. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral In Memoriam

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    I think it will turn out the new director means well, but is just a "suit" and not really right for the job. A nice guy out of his depth.
     
  9. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Or Blade.
     
  10. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I actually forgot about that. I guess she managed to win be back pretty well. Yeah, she definitely went nuts, and trying to "cure" daisy and treating her like she was sick was pretty inexcusable. Still, the HYDRA thing turned out to be a double agent role, and until Season 4 she never betrayed Coulson, so she's far ahead of Mack and Mockingbird who were double agents against Coulson and supporting a bigoted moron. Plus, Simmons never hated Daisy. She had weird issues about inhumans and they were pretty indefensible, but Mockingbird and especially Mack want every powered person locked up permanently, and Simmons never went to that extreme.

    So, yeah, I forgot that Simmons definitely had huge issues, but they were never as bad as Mack or Mockingbird's, she never betrayed Coulson (in seasons 1-3) and she never became irredeemable even though her views on inhumans definitely came close to crossing the line. But, she ended up not going full Mack and swinging back to supportive, so I felt that she was redeemed and she won me back, hence her spot on the list of characters I like (from Seasons 1-3).

    But, that can easily change, and based on what I read Season 4 is having her betray Coulson. My feelings on characters can fluctuate. Daisy went from the perfect girl who got too much focus to a very good character. Simmons went from good to bad to good and might be going back the other way (not that I'll ever know if she gets better outside of reading recaps). A character's quality can fluctuate, and it honestly takes a lot for me to consider them permanently ruined (assuming they were a good or at least interesting character in the first place). Mack/Mockingbird did so many terrible things that they became irredeemable quickly and so badly that I honestly can't remember what I thought of them before they showed their true colors). Simmons has fluctuated but hadn't crossed the line in the Seasons of AoS that I found worth watching.
     
  11. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral In Memoriam

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    Well it's a good thing you're here sharing how you feel about a show you don't watch.
     
  12. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Um, crazy idea: why not just actually watch the show and see how they handle it instead of trying to judge it based on a secondhand source?

    I mean, it's a TV show. It's meant to be watched. You can't really evaluate it on the basis on a "recap." That would be like saying a book sucks because you didn't like the back cover copy. :)

    And if you're not actually watching a show, why bother reading about it? Or caring about it?

    I've never seen a single episode of GAME OF THRONES, because I don't happen to subscribe to that premium channel,so I don't have any opinion on it. But I'm not going to go on-line and hold forth on it based on a summary I read somewhere . ..
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  13. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    And don't forget the hyphen!
     
  14. Star Wolf

    Star Wolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My thought was Marsellus Wallace.
    Then he ceases to be Deathlok and becomes Steve Austin. Maybe because of his history of working for both sides, even if under duress the tech along with plastic surgeryand renlisting in the new S.H.I.E.L.D. is not made available to Mr Peterson
     
  15. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Well, that was a pretty good episode, if a bit jarring for someone who doesn't watch the movies. Coulson is demoted to agent again-- and I wonder what Fury thinks about that-- and we've got an unseen director, who is evidently not the hands-on type. The team is mostly split up and Daisy is being hunted as a criminal or terrorist. I got my wish that SHIELD is a legitimate organization again, but it didn't happen quite the way I wanted-- aside from happening offscreen, it seems to have happened because of the Superhero Civil War, not because of Coulson's efforts.

    I was happy to see that Yo Yo is still around, and I loved her flirting with Mack. The poor guy seems a little shy around her. :rommie:

    This Ghost Rider is interesting. He's definitely not like Blaze, but doesn't seem entirely like the description of Reyes either. He is certainly a stone-cold killer, so I wonder where they will go with the character-- a redemptive arc or flat-out enemy? That flaming car is cooler than I expected, but I did kind of find myself wishing that the guy's brother had become Ghost Rider instead-- imagine Ghost Rider with a flaming wheelchair. :rommie: I'm still wondering if he is going to be an Inhuman or genuinely supernatural-- it seems like it could go either way. Maybe we'll see Man-Thing and Werewolf By Night and other such characters.

    I'm also not quite sure where they're going with the android. She's not an AI, so not an actual character (at least not yet). The use of the word decoy sort of confirms that it's going to about LMDs. One bad thing is that they're keeping this a secret from Gemma, because of her favored position with the new director-- but everybody seems to be doing that-- so this will lead to conflict between her and Fitz, which is something I don't want to see. From a political standpoint, the crazy doctor would have been wiser to not make his android in the image of a beautiful woman who walks around naked, but I can't bring myself to complain too much about that. Or about the opening montage, either. Looks like they're taking advantage of that new later time slot (which, unfortunately, means more grisly violence as well).

    He may have qualified as an anti-hero because his powers were Satanic in origin, but he was basically a decent guy who got in over his head to save his girlfriend. But, again, I'm not sure what latter-day Marvel did to him to make him darker and edgier.

    That's the bottom line. These shows and movies recycle names from the books, but they really have essentially nothing to do with the originals, so it's best to not be distracted by the names and see them as something new.
     
  16. Briet

    Briet Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I think she also left because of the Sokivia Accords. If she stayed at SHIELD she would have had to sign it, and then she could only have gone on missions if the UN gave the go ahed, but she really wanted to kick some Watchdogs butts. Plus she has the "I don't want to endanger the rest of the people I care about, so I cut them loose" thing going on.

    All-in-all, I liked the episode. Not the strongest season starter, but that is nothing new. I hope we get to see some more of the recurring characters from the previous seasons: Mike and Joey would be great, but I would be glad to see Agent Weaver or Ian Quinn again too. Also, Ghost Rider was awesome for a psyco serial killer.

    I agree that the new director won't be so bad. Remember that in the Season 2 premier they kept telling that Coulson became a reclusive hermit and anyone hardly sees him and then thing went right back to normal, or in the Season 3 premier Rosalind Price watched a room full of corpses wihile saying menacing things out of context, but she turned out to be a lovely dragon lady? But I could be wrong. :shrug::)
     
  17. Large Gathering of Unmasked People

    Large Gathering of Unmasked People Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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  18. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    Marsden is very sad.
    I just got this terrible mashup in my head from reading that, Paul Blart: Undead Mall Cop.

    I was a little on the negative side but seeing the car jump after getting hit by the RPG and the flaming undercarriage and tires! I'm sold!

    And I think the flaming skull looks great in the show, much better than the stills in the promo material. I think the movement of the flames is what helps it, the fact that it's constantly partially obscured helps and the stills ruin that effect. I'm going to say based on this first appearance, I'm giving this Ghost Rider an A.
    I also really enjoyed Quake accusing him of being a serial killer and Ghost Rider responding back to every charge about them being a person that did horrible things. I don't approve of that in real life, but in shows and books, I'm on board.

    Me, too.



    They opened up a whole bunch of stuff in this episode. I'm really looking forward how it all shakes out.

    I don't want to say I was giving up on it, but last half of Season 3 seemed a bit, flat, to me. This one really juiced it up.

    AOS seems to me like a really good "framework" kind of show, though, like it doesn't have to be the same thing every year, or even in the same year. Coulson and the gang can be hunting Nazis, fighting aliens, chasing ghosts, you name it. And number of mid to minor characters can show up, ones that would really never rate a movie, and it still works. I'm hoping the Ghost Rider isn't some how cured or killed, I'd like to see him pop up again somewhere else.

    I really liked how Quake said go ahead and kill me and Ghosty just gave her a whatev look and left. Makes me think Eli isn't quite as in control here.
     
  19. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    Marsden is very sad.
    I think it's ok that they said that, but there's a lot of Magic in the MCU already. You can Arthur C Clarke it away as advanced science, but it's magic. Ant Man, is magic. I liked that they again tried to give a bit of an explanation, but it really doesn't hold up, but I'm good with it. It's enough to show they actually care, even though it's impossible and will never happen. If we only watched movies and read books that were possible... I doubt we'd have this BBS to talk about it.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    In real-world terms, yes, obviously it's all fantasy. But that's a different topic from the question of how they define it in-universe, and that's what we're actually talking about here. In-story, in both AoS and Doctor Strange, genuine magic is going to be defined as something with a distinct nature and origin from the kind of indistinguishable-from-magic science we've seen before. That's how the characters in these stories are going to define and relate to these phenomena, because they exist within the story, not in the real world. Pointing out that it's all really fantasy is not only off-topic, but it's unnecessary, because every sane viewer already knows that. We're discussing these things as fictional constructs within the stories.