Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)

[FPAlpha]

Hot damn what an awesome episode.

I'm not too sold on Shield vs. Shield, mainly because Olmos' Shield is just the previous, flawed version which was shown not to work but they can't see it. There was a reason Coulson was chosen by Fury because he offered a new and possibly better approach yet they don't stop and think for a second.

Apart from that it was balls to the wall.. Simmons outsmarting Mockingbird, we get Xena kick some ass once more, flashbacks to the day Shield fell and Skye going all in with her powers for the first time (and now i want her in Avengers 3!).

Shield (the show) really doesn't linger much on plot points, do they? They introduce a mystery and 3 episodes later blow it all up and get things moving. Other shows would have extended the secret Skye powers to at least half season. Here only one or two passed before everybody knew.

I like that approach and Shield definitely has improved in both pacing and structure over the first half of season 1.

Now i really look forward to each week and a new episode.

Did anyone think of Attilan when the Inhuman spoke of his home where he wanted to bring her?

My mind would be so blown if they actually went ahead and introduced Black Bolt and the royal family in this show as opposed to the movie which is still a few years ahead (and i doubt it because even while well funded it would probably be beyond their budget).
However this begs the question what their long term plan is with the Inhumans since they started off so early. I would understand this if they started with it in the season where The Inhumans would be released, the same as how they incorporated Cap 2 into the show and gave it a new spin.

Anyway, Shield is now exactly where and how i wanted it to be from the start and i have faith in the production team to keep it there.

 

[Marsden]

I like this storyline, but the whole SHIELD vs SHIELD thing just feels a tad artificial. I don't get why these people are at each other's throats like this, aside from creating drama. And the flashbacks to the day SHIELD fell make it seem even more unlikely given Gonzales' loyalty to Fury. It feels like they're trying to re-create the end of last season without proper justification...

But that was the point, he felt his loyalty was betrayed because Fury's last orders were to blow up the ship and now any of Fury's last orders, like making Coulson the new Director, are suspect and he is not in favor of it. Also, I'm wondering about "Fury's monsters hidden around the globe" I wonder if the Koenig's are part of that. If he's clones that could be considered "monsters" especially if the information is vague.

So Gonzalez and Morse are disillusioned with Fury.
Weaver is indebted to "real" SHIELD for saving her life.
And Calderon seems to be an anti enhanced bigot and Mack to a lesser degree.
So there's movtivation to be against Coulson's SHIELD.

 

[Corran Horn]

Well, you don't have to wonder what SHIELD is doing during AoU - they're chasing their own tail.

 

[kirk55555]

I didn't think this episode was great, but it had a few good moments. I liked seeing Simmons trick Mockingbird. If she can get over her hatred of super powered people she might actually redeem herself as a character. May vs. Mockingbird was interesting, although it didn't end with May snapping Mockingbird like a twig, which was expected but disappointing. Hopefully Coulson and Hunter find a way to take out Gonzales and his flunkies next week.

The Skye stuff with the inhuman was kind of interesting, hopefully we'll learn more about them. Having her in a cabin that (based on the giant fist print) housed the Hulk was pretty cool.

 

[Reverend]

^It's not hatred, it's fear and it's not entirely unjustified. There's a fundamental difference between being afraid of a person for what they might do and hating them for what they are.

Keep in mind Simmons is a doctor, her first instinct is always going to be to protect people and her training has conditioned her to approach physical abnormalities as ailments or disabilities to be treated.

 

[kirk55555]

^It's not hatred, it's fear and it's not entirely unjustified. There's a fundamental difference between being afraid of a person for what they might do and hating them for what they are.

Keep in mind Simmons is a doctor, her first instinct is always going to be to protect people and her training has conditioned her to approach physical abnormalities as ailments or disabilities to be treated.

Well, she certainly didn't want to "protect" Raina. She also definitely hates people like Skye or Raina, she wasn't very subtle about her ideas with what they should do with people like them. It was pretty unsubtle writing, but hopefully she'll grow out of it. If nothing else, taking out Mockingbird was the first time I haven't loathed Simmons since Skye got her powers, and it gives me a bit of hope for the character. Unless she betrays the team and joins Gonzales, which looks like a decent possibility right now.

 

[Christopher]

And I like Gordon, now that he's actually gotten to say something. His first appearance he looked like there were just no eyes, but lately the area where his eyes were have a kind of blur, I wonder if he does still have his eyes but they are in that other dimension he teleports through.

Any blur would most likely suggest that they're erasing his eyes digitally (or maybe some eye holes in the prosthetic) and sometimes the effect is imperfect.

I'm not too sold on Shield vs. Shield, mainly because Olmos' Shield is just the previous, flawed version which was shown not to work but they can't see it. There was a reason Coulson was chosen by Fury because he offered a new and possibly better approach yet they don't stop and think for a second.

Did we see the same episode? The whole point of the flashbacks was to establish that this wasn't the same old SHIELD -- that Bobbi, Mack, and Izzy rejected Gonzales's impulse to blindly follow Fury's orders, chose to follow their consciences instead, and convinced Gonzales to do the same. In their view, Coulson represents the same old SHIELD, just one more of Fury's selfish and dangerous secret projects.

What's cool about this conflict is that both sides are actually right. They both believe SHIELD needs to be reformed and reinvented into something better and more moral, but they're going about it in different ways and making different mistakes. Gonzales has a point about the dangerous powers and alien elements that Coulson's team has been playing around with; yet on the other hand, he and Calderon are too paranoid about those powers, seeing only the potential for harm and not for good.

I think eventually the two sides will have to arrive at some sort of rapprochement and merge back into a single SHIELD. We're already seeing signs of that with Weaver, Mack, and Fitz-Simmons. Then again, Bobbi's willingness to defy orders and do what's right in the flashback may foretoken that she'll turn against Calderon and his xenophobia and stand with Coulson's team.

 

[Captain Craig]

If Gonzalez SHIELD is so legit why isn't someone like Talbot having an open line of communication with him? Talbot doesn't seem to think anyone BUT Coulson is running SHIELD.

 

[Corran Horn]

If Gonzalez SHIELD is so legit why isn't someone like Talbot having an open line of communication with him? Talbot doesn't seem to think anyone BUT Coulson is running SHIELD.

Yeah, I agree that's confusing. I assume it'll be addressed in the show.

 

[Marsden]

If Gonzalez SHIELD is so legit why isn't someone like Talbot having an open line of communication with him? Talbot doesn't seem to think anyone BUT Coulson is running SHIELD.

I think they are hiding on their carrier, Coulson said he searched for him and didn't find him. I think they were letting Coulson do the dirty work of dealing with Talbot and HYDRA while hiding on their boat. I don't think it's only coincidence "real" SHIELD doesn't make it's move until after Coulson's team eliminated a lot of HYDRA leadership.

 

[Karzak]

More than ever, I am convinced that Whitehall brainwashed Simmons earlier in the season while she was undercover. I'm guessing Season 2 will end with some kind of epic victory for Coulson and company, only to have Jemma go and shoot him or something like that.

That, and I cannot stand Hunter.

 

[Ethros]

Oh EJO, that voice...
I'd listen to him just reading the phonebook.



Good episode, loving this show atm

 

[JD]

THis was a pretty great episode. I didn't expect them to go all in with the whole S.H.I.E.L.D vs S.H.I.E.L.D. conflict this soon. I was thrilled that we even got a face to face between Coulson and Gonsalez. I like that they also made a point of saying that no one was killed, and they even showed the leader from the Academy being friendly with Simmons. I think it's pretty clear this isn't going to be as simple as good S.H.I.E.L.D vs evil S.H.I.E.L.D.. I really liked the flashback's for Gonsalez group.
I really enjoyed the scenes with Skye and Gordon.It was nice to see Skye actually meeting one of her people. Looking forward to spending more time in the Inhumans' home.
I was really surprised to actually see Coulson's team lose control of their base.
Really looking forward to seeing where this is all headed.

 

[Christopher]

^Yeah, we already got good vs. evil last season with HYDRA. Good guys vs. good guys is generally more interesting due to the ambiguities involved.

 

[FPAlpha]

Gonzales has a point about the dangerous powers and alien elements that Coulson's team has been playing around with; yet on the other hand, he and Calderon are too paranoid about those powers, seeing only the potential for harm and not for good.

And that's exactly why i believe Olmos' Shield is closer to the old version even if he may not see it like that.

It's old Shield's mode of operation.. if you have something you can't control lock it up, destroy it or study it to use it on your own (calm analysis or any other approach is not even considered, it's about total control).

Coulson made a good point asking Olmos (i just can't remember his character's name) why they didn't simply contact them to talk this out. They sure have infiltrated Coulson's Shield so they must have had the possibility to aquire mission briefings and de-briefings to get the whole picture.

Instead they declared them untrustworthy and potentially hostile, that smells really like Fury's Shield.

On top of it there is the question why Fury presented Coulson with the Toolbox and not any other higher ranking Shield officer. He must have known who has survived and while Coulson was a top agent with access to Fury he was still a field agent and not part of the upper command structure.
So Fury must have felt that Coulson would be the right man to rebuild Shield and make it different enough.

While Olmos' version would still work and i'd be confident for them to do good work they would still be closer to the old distrustful, devious and secretitive Shield version that went down against Hydra.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I was wondering, when May put Coulson in the elevator, why didn't she just go with him? Maybe she has a plan. In the meantime, we may be getting that epic staredown between her and EJO next ep.

If The Real SlimSHIELD has been cruising below the radar until now, it's probably because they do everything by committee and couldn't muster a quorum to vote on taking any actions.

If there is a reconciliation coming down the road, then this is probably a way of getting our regular characters some additional assets in the end, a la the Pegasus storyline. And if Coulson is to remain in charge, then the prognosis isn't good for Gonzales....

I don't see Fury being the one to bring together the factions, though...it would be dramatically less satisfying than having them work it out themselves, and SlimSHIELD specifically has a beef with Fury's legacy.

If SlimSHIELD is so anti-metahuman, maybe they should strike at the heart of the problem and try to take down the Avengers. It would be fun to watch the Hulk and Thor go to town on these putzes.

 

[Christopher]

And that's exactly why i believe Olmos' Shield is closer to the old version even if he may not see it like that.

It's old Shield's mode of operation.. if you have something you can't control lock it up, destroy it or study it to use it on your own (calm analysis or any other approach is not even considered, it's about total control).

I just don't believe the writers' plan is for Gonzales's SHIELD to be simply in the wrong. This episode made both sides sympathetic and heroic. The only unambiguous jerk here is Calderon. As for the rest, they're all trying to do the right thing; they just need to work through their different interpretations of how to go about it.

 

[DWF]

Gonzales has a point about the dangerous powers and alien elements that Coulson's team has been playing around with; yet on the other hand, he and Calderon are too paranoid about those powers, seeing only the potential for harm and not for good.

And that's exactly why i believe Olmos' Shield is closer to the old version even if he may not see it like that.

It's old Shield's mode of operation.. if you have something you can't control lock it up, destroy it or study it to use it on your own (calm analysis or any other approach is not even considered, it's about total control).

Not really, it took Thor's arrival to show SHIELD jsut how useless they really are against major league threats as Fury pointed out in the first Avengers movie. Before that we know very little about SHIELD, tjhey had the tesseract for years and learned next to nothing about it.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think that somewhere between Calderon (That's Skinhead, right?), the committee thing, and the anit-meta thing, we're supposed to find SlimSHIELD somewhat unlikeable.

The committee thing seems particularly weak for an organization like this...as opposed to a strong executive authority perhaps consulting advisors, but ultimately making the life-or-death decisions.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

More than ever, I am convinced that Whitehall brainwashed Simmons earlier in the season while she was undercover. I'm guessing Season 2 will end with some kind of epic victory for Coulson and company, only to have Jemma go and shoot him or something like that.

That, and I cannot stand Hunter.

So, what, she is a cylon now?
What is it with Adama showing up and all these comparisons to BSG starting the same moment?