Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)

[Guy Gardener]

Surely it would be easier to ask the USAF if they could film episodes on one of their Hellicarriers?

 

[Mage]

Surely it would be easier to ask the USAF if they could film episodes on one of their Hellicarriers?

They tried, but the the USAF got all whiney about not being able to confirm or deny the existence of hellicarriers, and it all got a bit weird, so Marvel just let them be.

 

[bbjeg]

Obviously, Guy means an actual carrier. Really, they only need one good establish shot. We've seen helicarriers in three movies, we know what they are. Everything else would be sets. It could also stay cloaked. I imagine that would be easier to render.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Real carriers and SHIELD's Hellicarriers look different, though.

 

[Reverend]

Real carriers and SHIELD's Hellicarriers look different, though.

Only the one's we've seen to date. It's still possible the the Illiad in a hellicarrier that just so happens to look like a Nimitz on the surface.

 

[theenglish]

There are enough effects shots already, I'm sure it wouldn't push the budget to just insert a CGI/Model helicarrier into the series.

 

[kitik]

It's still possible the the Illiad in a hellicarrier that just so happens to look like a Nimitz on the surface.

What the hell's in that cargo hold anyways?

 

[ATimson]

Spoiler

I think that's a bit like asking how 9/11 could change everything forever, since it only destroyed two and a half buildings.

...

But most importantly -- Stark Industries is apparently backing the establishment of a permanent institution dedicated to organized superhero-ing. One that appears to be administered by the no-longer-in-hiding Nick Fury. And they may or may not have put Hellicarrier 64 into the Avengers Initiative's permanent power. So basically, it's an off-brand version of SHIELD -- it's I Can't Believe It's Not SHIELD. And who knows if I Can't Believe It's Not SHIELD will get along well with Gonzalez-SHIELD or Coulson-SHIELD?

Good points, Sci.

Spoiler

I was thinking more in terms of immediate impact on the show; the other items not quoted above may be changes to the world, but I don't think they'll impinge on the show immediately. So if that's what the writers meant, then I feel it was a cheat.

But you made a good point about I Can't Believe It's Not SHIELD. Totally didn't connect the dots there.

And it is my understanding that any given CGI shot requires time to render, and that the amount of time increases with the complexity and quality of the CG model (to the point where, for instance, the visual effects guys working on ENT back in 2001 re-used a CGI shot of a 23rd Century Klingon battleship in the third episode in spite of it being too advanced, because there just wasn't enough time and money to create a proper 22nd Century Klingon ship by that episode's deadline).

IIRC (and unfortunately Doug Drexler's blog is gone so I can't confirm): They created a new model and did the shot, but the producers rejected it. I don't know if the final shot with the D7 was a reuse of another shot, or if they simply used the existing model but it was still a new shot. I thought it was the latter.

 

[Kemaiku]

True, but the bigger the model, the longer it takes to render any shot of it.

The Helicarrier is the result of two companies work, not just ILM, the IN Series carriers are barely any more detailed than the 64 which means a hell of a lot of polys.

Rendering any shot for a weekly TV show in their budget, getting the other two studios onboard with supplying that on a deadline, means little chance of a Helicarrier.

Watching season 2 of AoS you can see the substantial drop in realism and detail in the Quinjets over the movie versions, something 200 times the size, yeah.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Spoiler: Age of Ultron

My favorite part was when Superman flew all the Israelites out of Egypt.

Spoiler: I've now seen AoU...

...and I was very disappointed when Matt LeBlanc didn't show up to save the day as Superman...!

 

[Reverend]

It's still possible the the Illiad in a hellicarrier that just so happens to look like a Nimitz on the surface.

What the hell's in that cargo hold anyways?

Your guess is as good as mine. Could be anything from Marvel lore, but if we assume for a second that it's something that's already established in the MCU (hence the ominous secrecy) then the list gets quite a bit shorter considering Fury thought it was worth sinking a carrier with all aboard rather than let Hydra get their hands on it. That pretty much narrows it down to Sterns, Blonsky, the Destroyer, a rebuilt leviathan or (very unlikely) yet another infinity stone.

If it something we haven't seen before then the biggest contenders would be: Mar-Vel, Modok, the M'Kraan crystal, the Beyonder, the High Evolutionary...a live Skrull perhaps?

And it is my understanding that any given CGI shot requires time to render, and that the amount of time increases with the complexity and quality of the CG model (to the point where, for instance, the visual effects guys working on ENT back in 2001 re-used a CGI shot of a 23rd Century Klingon battleship in the third episode in spite of it being too advanced, because there just wasn't enough time and money to create a proper 22nd Century Klingon ship by that episode's deadline).

Things have moved on a bit since 2001, but yeah, in broad terms the more complex a shot--polycount plus textures multiplied by resolution, shaders and various light maps and all multiplied again by how many frames (read: shot length) need to be rendered--the more time it takes to render and the more expensive it is. Still, this is what budgets are for.

Here's the thing though, this is exactly why they reuse establishing shots. It more cost effective to just render a few stock shots that can be used over and over than have to render all new VFX for every episode.

If they're smart, they can get a lot of mileage out of stock footage; with digital grading they can slap on a simple day-for-night filter and that shot of the Bus flying over the clouds at magic hour can easily (and cheaply) become the Bus flying at night under moonlight.

You can even take the original footage and comp in new elements (like say some Hydra quinjets, or a window blowing out) just as you would if you were using live action stock (for example: that shot of the Bus landing on the carrier from last season) without having to re-render the original scene file.

True, but the bigger the model, the longer it takes to render any shot of it.

The Helicarrier is the result of two companies work, not just ILM, the IN Series carriers are barely any more detailed than the 64 which means a hell of a lot of polys.

Rendering any shot for a weekly TV show in their budget, getting the other two studios onboard with supplying that on a deadline, means little chance of a Helicarrier.

Watching season 2 of AoS you can see the substantial drop in realism and detail in the Quinjets over the movie versions, something 200 times the size, yeah.

You're assuming that they can't render a slightly lower poly version of the mesh with cut-down texture res.

 

[Kemaiku]

I'd rather they didn't compromise like that though, like I said the drop in quality on the Quinjets is noticeable and annoying.

I love the Helicarriers, but would prefer they stay movie only, or appear for TV series finales where they can use a higher budget and prepare for it ahead of time enough.

 

[Reverend]

I'd rather they didn't compromise like that though, like I said the drop in quality on the Quinjets is noticeable and annoying.

I love the Helicarriers, but would prefer they stay movie only, or appear for TV series finales where they can use a higher budget and prepare for it ahead of time enough.

Honestly it didn't bother me and I barely even noticed the drop in render quality.

You have to look at it realistically, you can't expect them do on a TV show what they do in triple-A budget movies nor should you expect them not to try to do the very best they *can* do. If having a helicarrier on the show means the CG doesn't look *exactly* like it did in Avengers, well I think we can learn to cope with it, no?

 

[Lyon_Wonder]

I wonder if the Avenger complex seen at the end of AoU is the "100 bunk beds" facility that Coulson helped plan? I wouldn't be surprised that Coulson was secretly keeping in contact with Fury and Maria Hill since the end of season 1.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think that using the hellicarrier in AoS would be tantamount to having Nick Fury hanging around looking over Coulson's shoulder.

 

[DWF]

I'd rather they didn't compromise like that though, like I said the drop in quality on the Quinjets is noticeable and annoying.

I love the Helicarriers, but would prefer they stay movie only, or appear for TV series finales where they can use a higher budget and prepare for it ahead of time enough.

Honestly it didn't bother me and I barely even noticed the drop in render quality.

You have to look at it realistically, you can't expect them do on a TV show what they do in triple-A budget movies nor should you expect them not to try to do the very best they *can* do. If having a helicarrier on the show means the CG doesn't look *exactly* like it did in Avengers, well I think we can learn to cope with it, no?

The David Hasselhof nick Fury movie had a helicarrier, not a huge one mind you but it was SHEILD's base none the less.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What about a moonbase?

 

[DEWLine]

Coulson's already connected those dots for Gonzales' benefit, though, by admitting to being in contact with Hill and that Fury's alive. He made "Fury's looking over my shoulder...at you" a threat. Not in those exact words, mind you...

 

[DWF]

What about a moonbase?

The moon left earth orbit on Sept. 17,1999 where were you at?

 

[DEWLine]

September 13th. Also, wrong 'verse for that event.