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Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)

Has anyone seen Joss Whedon's comments about AoS and it not being apart of the MCU?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/27/why-the-marvel-movie-guys-are-annoyed-with-joss-whedon

How in the world do you get "Agents of SHIELD" is not part of the MCU" from that interview? All Whedon says in it is that Coulson, for all intents and purposes, is presumed dead in the feature films, and the reason was so that the show could operate independently of the films.

I don't see how that equates to "Agents of SHIELD" not existing in the MCU.
 
Has anyone seen Joss Whedon's comments about AoS and it not being apart of the MCU?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/27/why-the-marvel-movie-guys-are-annoyed-with-joss-whedon

How in the world do you get "Agents of SHIELD" is not part of the MCU" from that interview? All Whedon says in it is that Coulson, for all intents and purposes, is presumed dead in the feature films, and the reason was so that the show could operate independently of the films.

I don't see how that equates to "Agents of SHIELD" not existing in the MCU.
Easy. No living Agent Coulson = No Agents of Shield team.


Also people on AMC Movie Talk were talking about Whedon's comments post AoU. This was one of the interviews Whedon gave to IGN. There are others I'm looking for.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQTTZzaiCuk[/yt]
 
So basically Whedon is suggesting that a TV series that's barely limping along is not on the same level as a multi-billion dollar film franchise, and idiot talking heads think it's some kind of revelation?

Gotcha.
 
So basically Whedon is suggesting that a TV series that's barely limping along is not on the same level as a multi-billion dollar film franchise, and idiot talking heads think it's some kind of revelation?

Gotcha.

^ That and since Marvel has gained limited rights to Spider-Man, the planned Inhumans movie has been pushed back till AFTER Infinity War Part 2 debuts. Both of which are set to happen in 2019. Aos is building a lot of momentum up with the Kree teases, Terrgenesis, and Skye being an Inhuman but with regards to the MCU, none of that is going to matter until after the Avengers' final film 4 years from now.
 
So basically Whedon is suggesting that a TV series that's barely limping along is not on the same level as a multi-billion dollar film franchise, and idiot talking heads think it's some kind of revelation?

Gotcha.
^ That and since Marvel has gained limited rights to Spider-Man, the planned Inhumans movie has been pushed back till AFTER Infinity War Part 2 debuts. Both of which are set to happen in 2019. Aos is building a lot of momentum up with the Kree teases, Terrgenesis, and Skye being an Inhuman but with regards to the MCU, none of that is going to matter until after the Avengers' final film 4 years from now.
Unless they actually sprinkle in Inhumans stuff here and there in various movies between now and 2019. Inhumans (the film) doesn't need to be about knowledge of the Inhumans finally becoming widespread. AoS has established that there are pockets of Inhumans scattered across the planet. The film will more likely focus specifically on Black Bolt and the seat of Inhuman power in Attilan.
 
So basically Whedon is suggesting that a TV series that's barely limping along is not on the same level as a multi-billion dollar film franchise, and idiot talking heads think it's some kind of revelation?

Gotcha.
^ That and since Marvel has gained limited rights to Spider-Man, the planned Inhumans movie has been pushed back till AFTER Infinity War Part 2 debuts. Both of which are set to happen in 2019. Aos is building a lot of momentum up with the Kree teases, Terrgenesis, and Skye being an Inhuman but with regards to the MCU, none of that is going to matter until after the Avengers' final film 4 years from now.
Unless they actually sprinkle in Inhumans stuff here and there in various movies between now and 2019. Inhumans (the film) doesn't need to be about knowledge of the Inhumans finally becoming widespread. AoS has established that there are pockets of Inhumans scattered across the planet. The film will more likely focus specifically on Black Bolt and the seat of Inhuman power in Attilan.

They have their shot with Captain Marvel in 2018, the last film before Infinity War part 2 and GOTG 2 in 2017; since Guardians will likely interact more with the Kree in their sequel.

I hope we get something. I'm excited to see Black Bolt, Maximus the Mad and Gorgon in action.
 
At this point, it's kind of weird that they're still maintaining the fiction that Coulson is dead. He doesn't wear a fake mustache or use an assumed name or anything. He has SHIELD and ex-SHIELD contacts all over the world. The Avengers must be the only people on the planet who still think he's dead. And what's the benefit to that?
 
What he said is his personal view is it's not part of the MCU, that it's best ignored, etc. It is technically part of the same universe, but it's clear he doesn't give a shit about it. It's also clear Feige doesn't really give a shit about it (he's always been clear that he has no involvement over the shows). Basically, the whole comment was shitting on fans of the TV show saying that "no, it'll never be referenced by the movies." Everything is one way. I think it's a missed opportunity and a disappointment. It's possible to reference and include things from the TV shows without being a distraction and being a reward to the TV viewers.

Kevin Feige did end up having a little bit of involvement with Agent Carter. Maybe that helped show him that it wasn't too bad to incorporate things. Apparently, Charlie Cox is also contracted to appear in movies if they so choose. That also contradicts what Joss Whedon is saying.
 
Has anyone seen Joss Whedon's comments about AoS and it not being apart of the MCU?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/27/why-the-marvel-movie-guys-are-annoyed-with-joss-whedon


Well, this is why I don't bother with those things, I just watch the shows/movies. I don't want to know the creators or the actors, chances are they're assholes anyway, so why ruin a fun thing, like everyone that enjoyed his work on DareDevil wants to spend time with Frank Miller, right? Whedon is no better, I liked the movies and shows he's made but I wouldn't want to meet him and don't care one bit about his opinions.

Edit:
Sorry, I wasn't directing this at M.A.C.O or any other poster here, I know a lot of people like to read about stuff ahead of time and afterwards, I just don't. I've found it negatively impacts my experience. I prefer to enjoy the work on my own enjoyment of it, not wether or not I like the guy that made it.
 
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Has anyone seen Joss Whedon's comments about AoS and it not being apart of the MCU?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/27/why-the-marvel-movie-guys-are-annoyed-with-joss-whedon

How in the world do you get "Agents of SHIELD" is not part of the MCU" from that interview? All Whedon says in it is that Coulson, for all intents and purposes, is presumed dead in the feature films, and the reason was so that the show could operate independently of the films.

I don't see how that equates to "Agents of SHIELD" not existing in the MCU.

If I had to guess it's a simply calculation that most people who saw the first Avengers film haven't watched AoS - so a living Coulson would be confusing to people.
 
And the billion dollar movie people were under no obligation to help out the million dollar tv people other than he's related to a few of them.

Of course, it seems like a teach a bloke to fish sort of thing, giving the family a real job rather than a hand out.
 
Has anyone seen Joss Whedon's comments about AoS and it not being apart of the MCU?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/27/why-the-marvel-movie-guys-are-annoyed-with-joss-whedon

That's not what he meant. He just meant that the movies need to be able to function narratively as their own self-contained entity. After all, quite a lot of the people who see the movies are not going to be viewers of the shows. It's a given that if a franchise has works in different media, they won't have the same audience; indeed, that's the whole reason for expanding into different media, so that you can draw in multiple audiences.

So any work in a multimedia franchise has to fulfill two goals. It has to work both as a standalone tale in its own right and as a part of a larger whole. And the former is usually the higher priority, particularly for the dominant thread with the largest audience, which in this case is the movies. So the goal is to keep the films and the shows consistent with each other without depending on each other.

So yes, in the grand scheme of things, the movies and AoS are in the same universe. But the movies also need to be able to function as their own independent whole, to shape their own path rather than being shaped by events in the TV shows or the shorts or the tie-in comics. That way, the people who see only the movies and nothing else will get a complete and consistent story, one in which Coulson's death has a lasting meaning. But those people who watch both the movies and the shows will get a different, wider perpsective on events, in which Coulson's death was just part of his ongoing story.

So he wasn't saying that AoS isn't part of the same "reality." He was just saying that it needs to be a distinct thing narratively. The interconnections between MCU works are a bonus, but the individual needs of each story predominate. That's why you didn't see the Avengers coming down to fight the fires in Hell's Kitchen in Daredevil. Theoretically the same world, but narratively independent storylines.
 
So basically Whedon is suggesting that a TV series that's barely limping along is not on the same level as a multi-billion dollar film franchise, and idiot talking heads think it's some kind of revelation?

Gotcha.
The illusion that Coulson is still dead after all this time is as ridiculous as people perpetuating the idea that AoS is just "limping" along. Is it CSI numbers no, but it's not limping along. That has been pointed out a few times but it never seems to take even when the numbers are shown.
 
What Christopher said. I can understand Whedon having zero interest in bringing Coulson back for Age of Ultron, as it would mean having our heroes be all confused about a part of the MCU that in no way affects the story he made this particular movie to tell. It'd be like Uncle Owen popping up in Dagobah during The Empire Strikes Back to tell Luke "What's up?! That burnt corpse you saw was a charred mannequin! Now excuse me, your aunt and I have plans to knock over one of Fett's casinos in Mos Espa. You can watch our adventures every week on CBS! Now, good luck with your fight against Darth Helmet or whoever, I'm peace-ing out!", and then exiting the movie entirely.

That said, I do quite hope we get some kind of crossover/acknowledgement of his revival and the Bus Gang in Civil War, as I assume it's going to be in large part about the politics of the MCU, and Coulson being the new SHIELD director makes him a pretty significant player in that regard. And given that Whedon's punching out from the Marvel Studios, I don't see that as being particularly unlikely, either. Because, yeah, it's clearly time Stark and Cap started hearing rumors about this Phil guy fighting HYDRA all over the place.
 
^It's all behind the shadows.

I for one am liking the Real-Shield vs Coulson and his disavoweds storyline and the inhuman hidden city. It feels like they're distracting us from the events about to come in AoU, and out of what they could've gone with, it's not that bad. I am a bit biased though. I'm determined not to make any strong decisions about this show until after AoU. The first season peaked my interest while Thor and Captain America was doing stuff. I'm hoping the mention Daredevil at some point. Even a subtle name drop like they did with Micro would do. I like the contentiousness. I liked it when I read Marvel comics as a kid and it's nice that they moved that to cinema.

Oh look, HYDRA is a back. Sure would be a shocker if someone on the SHIELD team was a sleeper agent...

With that said, From Gonzoles's point of view, with Coulson's brainwashing, that's their fear and it's an understandable excuse.
 
That said, I do quite hope we get some kind of crossover/acknowledgement of his revival and the Bus Gang in Civil War, as I assume it's going to be in large part about the politics of the MCU, and Coulson being the new SHIELD director makes him a pretty significant player in that regard.

If he stays the director, that is. I'm wondering if we might end up with a situation where Gonzales and his council are the new SHIELD leaders and Coulson goes back to his former role as a field agent. That could be a good way to go for movie crossovers, if only because it gets us Edward James Olmos in a Marvel movie.


Because, yeah, it's clearly time Stark and Cap started hearing rumors about this Phil guy fighting HYDRA all over the place.

It's possible they do already know, but it just won't come up in the movies. Although we'll see soon enough whether there's a reference to Coulson's death in AoU.
 
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