About Tuvix:

[Kobayshi Maru]

Since everyone except Kim, Seven and Naomi is a quantum duplicate, and have no rights under Federation law, I do not see any problem with that Melakon

From the episode, it's not clear, which are the duplicates and which are the originals... The ones that survived where the ones the most damaged. One could argue that they were the ones who came late since the others started the particle thingy first that they were just thinking about using.

BUT, considering that the duplication must have been done in a fraction of a second and that they didn't exist as separate entities before the duplication was completed; it stands to reason that they started at the exact same time! Therefore whoever did the particle thing first is irrelevant and either ones could be in fact the originals.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Maybe it's just me, but I never bought the "friendships" Tuvix made. It seemed like they were forced to try to make "us" feel like he was more of an individual who was worthy of his existance. He wasn't exactly unlikeable, but he was strange, just in his own right. I honestly could not feel any empathy at all with his Fight for Survival. This wasn't helped by the completely rediculous and absurd "cause" of the mix-up, in the first place. I did feel for the EMH, however, because he and Janeway were the only two who seemed to be responding to it "in-character." I was glad when Tuvix finally accepted that he wasn't going to be a permanent cast-member on VOYAGER ... and did The Needful.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Since everyone except Kim, Seven and Naomi is a quantum duplicate, and have no rights under Federation law, I do not see any problem with that Melakon

From the episode, it's not clear, which are the duplicates and which are the originals... The ones that survived where the ones the most damaged. One could argue that they were the ones who came late since the others started the particle thingy first that they were just thinking about using.

BUT, considering that the duplication must have been done in a fraction of a second and that they didn't exist as separate entities before the duplication was completed; it stands to reason that they started at the exact same time! Therefore whoever did the particle thing first is irrelevant and either ones could be in fact the originals.

The Stanford experiment said that matter was duplicated, and that antimatter was not. Therefore the ship that had no antimatter immediately after the scission was the duplicate.

Naomi died on the ship that had Antimatter directly after the scission.

You can go on about Kes' phase variance, but it's really that simple.

Antimatter is not duplicated.

Oh bugger.

That means Kim and Naomi are fake, and everyone else is real.

My bad.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Since everyone except Kim, Seven and Naomi is a quantum duplicate, and have no rights under Federation law, I do not see any problem with that Melakon

From the episode, it's not clear, which are the duplicates and which are the originals... The ones that survived where the ones the most damaged. One could argue that they were the ones who came late since the others started the particle thingy first that they were just thinking about using.

BUT, considering that the duplication must have been done in a fraction of a second and that they didn't exist as separate entities before the duplication was completed; it stands to reason that they started at the exact same time! Therefore whoever did the particle thing first is irrelevant and either ones could be in fact the originals.

The Stanford experiment said that matter was duplicated, and that antimatter was not. Therefore the ship that had no antimatter immediately after the scission was the duplicate.

Naomi died on the ship that had Antimatter directly after the scission.

You can go on about Kes' phase variance, but it's really that simple.

Antimatter is not duplicated.

Oh bugger.

That means Kim and Naomi are fake, and everyone else is real.

My bad.

I don't think they said that one ship had no antimatter. What I seem to remember is that they shared the antimatter load and therefore they were using it at a double rate vis a vis the ship before the duplication. Both ships could tap into the antimatter. So we have no way of knowing if there even was a duplicate. They could both be considered duplicates of the original, that disappeared in the operation, the way a mother amebae gives birth to two daughters and ceases to exist in the process.

 

[Melakon]

Harry was Voyager's version of "O'Brien Must Suffer". The original Harry apparently was thrown out into space in a hull breach. If we can believe we were seeing the original Harry from the opening fade in.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

What I don't get is why doesn't every woman of the 25th century use the transporter to give birth. It would definitely be much painless than a cesarean or even normal birth for that matter. Maybe the doctor should write a paper on that and send it to the alpha quadrant...

 

[Makarov]

What I don't get is why doesn't every woman of the 25th century use the transporter to give birth. It would definitely be much painless than a cesarean or even normal birth for that matter. Maybe the doctor should write a paper on that and send it to the alpha quadrant...

I thought there was some technobabble reason like it depolarised the baby's blood cells or something and that made the baby die unless the doctor kept it on the machine.

Anyway I'm not a fan of the episode Tuvix anymore really, because I view the ending as a huge cop out. It's so blatantly forced into the reset button to fit the episodic nature, that it's not true to anyone's character.

 

[T'Girl]

What I don't get is why doesn't every woman of the 25th century use the transporter to give birth.

That would go to why women freely choose natural childbirth today. 24th century medicine could through a variety of methods safely remove a child (and placenta) from the womb without pain or scarring. But the experience of actually giving birth (which includes pain) would be gone.

 

[Guy Gardener]

From the episode, it's not clear, which are the duplicates and which are the originals... The ones that survived where the ones the most damaged. One could argue that they were the ones who came late since the others started the particle thingy first that they were just thinking about using.

BUT, considering that the duplication must have been done in a fraction of a second and that they didn't exist as separate entities before the duplication was completed; it stands to reason that they started at the exact same time! Therefore whoever did the particle thing first is irrelevant and either ones could be in fact the originals.

The Stanford experiment said that matter was duplicated, and that antimatter was not. Therefore the ship that had no antimatter immediately after the scission was the duplicate.

Naomi died on the ship that had Antimatter directly after the scission.

You can go on about Kes' phase variance, but it's really that simple.

Antimatter is not duplicated.

Oh bugger.

That means Kim and Naomi are fake, and everyone else is real.

My bad.

I don't think they said that one ship had no antimatter. What I seem to remember is that they shared the antimatter load and therefore they were using it at a double rate vis a vis the ship before the duplication. Both ships could tap into the antimatter. So we have no way of knowing if there even was a duplicate. They could both be considered duplicates of the original, that disappeared in the operation, the way a mother amebae gives birth to two daughters and ceases to exist in the process.

Voyager was fine until Voyager 2 started hitting it with proton bursts. If Voyager 2 had half the antimatter, then Voyager 1 would have been in a panic before the proton bursts started striking.

The sceience was explained in depth.

JANEWAY 2: Quantum theorists at Kent State University ran an experiment in which a single particle of matter was duplicated using a divergence of subspace fields, a spatial scission.
CHAKOTAY 2: If the same forces were at work inside the plasma cloud, they may have duplicated every particle of matter on Voyager.
JANEWAY 2: Matter. But not antimatter.
KIM 2: Captain?
JANEWAY 2: In that Kent State experiment, they were able to duplicate normal matter, but when they tried to duplicate antimatter particles, the experiment failed.
TORRES 2: So the antimatter on the ships wasn't duplicated. Both engines have been trying to draw power from a single source of antimatter.
JANEWAY 2: Like Siamese twins linked at the chest, with only one heart.
CHAKOTAY 2: So what do we do?

But it seems that because both ships were occupying the same space and were able to draw from the same stockpile of feul, there is no way to tell which ship was the duplicate.

JANEWAY 2: I'm not sure. Almost everything about the Voyager Kes described is identical to ours. We've had similar experiences, similar personal histories. We both entered a plasma cloud to avoid the Vidiians. Both of our engines stalled as we left the cloud, which caused both of our antimatter supplies to drain. And then we both decided to keep our engines running by emitting proton bursts. But after that, our experiences diverged. We started emitting the proton bursts. They didn't.

Which takes us back to the phase shift in the DNA of the surviving Voyager crew.

KES 2: I ran a microcellular scan. We're almost identical in every way.
JANEWAY 2: Almost?
EMH 2: There's a slight phase shift in her DNA. Do you have any theory about where she came from?
JANEWAY 2: Not yet. But I intend to find out. Can you wake her?
EMH 2: I believe so.
JANEWAY 2: Good, because I think she's going to have an interesting story to tell.

Everyone on the ship in the next episode, had the wrong DNA except Naomi and Kim.

 

[urbandefault]

I believe, to the core of my being, that Tuvix lives in the Mirror Universe.

He's incredibly happy there, because everyone in the Mirror Universe has BO and halitosis, just like him.

On every other Wednesday, they all go around breathing on each other and lifting their arms and waving the stinkycheese-ish odor at other crewmembers. And once a month, there's a contest. Whoever is judged to have the worst breath and/or the worst body odor gets a weekend in the holodeck with Mirror Harry.

Believe me, in the MU that's a real prize.

 

[Guy Gardener]

A Mirror Universe, or THE Mirror Universe?

We already saw a Mirror Tuvok in an episode of DS9.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

A Mirror Universe, or THE Mirror Universe?

We already saw a Mirror Tuvok in an episode of DS9.

Yeah, I found that odd when I saw him in that episode. That means that Tim Russ actually played in three Star trek series, IE TNG, DS9 and Voyager, plus we see him in one of the movies as a human, (the undiscovered country?)...

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

He is undercover there.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Section 31. Obviously.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I can't get enough of Section 31. If Tuvok was in it in VI are we to presume he is still in it.. I would think so.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Unless they gave Tuvok his Syphilis (Voy Flashback) to remove any memory of his involvement in Section 31?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

That is a perfect idea.

You should write to the people in charge of the VOY reboot, maybe Tuvok can be a sleeper agent that Section 31 flicks the on switch for. Tim Russ looks looks exactly the same so we can have him.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Repression, and the Pilot, he was already a sleeper agent twice over.

It's actually a miracle that Neelix didn't carry forth any of that sleeper agent brain washing or syphiilis with him on his way to the other side of Tuvix.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'll never get tired of sleeper agents either. They could have triggered some latent Tuvok programming in Neelix half a season down the track. Of course that would mean actually mentioning the events of Tuvix and apparently that was never going to happen.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I like evil Tuvok , as seen in Living Witness or Author author, or when he mind melds with the resident serial killer... He's so much more interesting than boring every day Tuvok.