About Tuvix:

[Kobayshi Maru]

Am I the only one to have a serious ethical problem with this episode? I've always believed (along with most every one I know) that it was morally wrong to sacrifice, IE murder, one person, in order to save another, or a thousand others for that matter. I mean it's admirable, even heroic, of one man, to forfeit his life, in order to save another but to kill someone, against his will, the way Janeway did, is , IMO, unconscionable. Plus I find it strange that there isn't even ONE dissenting voice among the rest of the crew. Tuvix was their friend, he was appreciated. I don't like the implications of that episode, plus it's blatantly anti star fleet, with its high humanitarian values.

What do you think?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tuvix punked out.

If he had just held on for one more episode, maybe a couple weeks, throwing red tape at the Justice system, Janeway and Chakotay would have been bit by that insect, and the only command staff outranking him would have been marooned and left behind as Captain Tuvix set course for home.

 

[Michael]

Am I the only one to have a serious ethical problem with this episode? I've always believed (along with most every one I know) that it was morally wrong to sacrifice, IE murder, one person, in order to save another, or a thousand others for that matter. I mean it's admirable, even heroic, of one man, to forfeit his life, in order to save another but to kill someone, against his will, the way Janeway did, is , IMO, unconscionable. Plus I find it strange that there isn't even ONE dissenting voice among the rest of the crew. Tuvix was their friend, he was appreciated. I don't like the implications of that episode, plus it's blatantly anti star fleet, with its high humanitarian values.

What do you think?

This and a thousand times this! Apparently you're new, so you can't know the hundreds of threads and arguments we had about Janeway's decision in "Tuvix" for the last couple of years. There seems to be a long and heated Tuvix thread every year or so. If you use the search function, you'd probably still find a lot of them.

People are really divided on this one. There are those who think Tuvix was an abomination/freak who was in essence the kidnapper of Tuvok and Neelix. These people consider Tuvix a selfish egotist, who should have given his life freely. They think Janeway's decision was the right and only one.

Then there are those who think there was no right or wrong answer to the problem and that someone had to make that decision. Janeway was in her right as the captain of the ship to make that decision. She was neither wrong nor right, but a decision had to be made.

And lastly, there are those – like me – who feel mudering Tuvix in order to save their friends Tuvok and Neelix was the wrong decision in any case. These people see Tuvix as a sentient, fundamentally free being with the right to live and decide over his own life. Some of them think Tuvix as portrayed by Tom Wright was a very likable, brilliant character, which made it even harder to bare the sight of all the other characters – save for the Doctor – who made Tuvix believe they were his friends, only to watch him die in the end. Personally, I like the episode very much (I made my current avatar in honor of the character and the episode), but the end always felt very wrong to me. Not having anyone come to Tuvix rescue left a very sour taste in my mouth. The ease with which Janeway makes that decision is appaling.

Oh, and I forgot about the subset of Trek fans who feel the episode should have come up with some technobabble way of saving Tuvix and Tuvok/Neelix, i.e. cheating the episode of its true conflict.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

"Tuvix" was a transporter accident that was repaired.

 

[SPCTRE]

Personally, I like the episode very much (I made my current avatar in honor of the character and the episode), but the end always felt very wrong to me. Not having anyone come to Tuvix rescue left a very sour taste in my mouth. The ease with which Janeway makes that decision is appaling.

That's actually precisely why I like the episode. These guys are our heroes and yet they do a horrible, horrible thing. A selfish thing, and a very human thing to do.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

She cleaved him in half with her humanity!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tuvix was eventually going to force himself on Kes.

Which was not going to be pretty, since she'd shred his brain before he even got his pants half down past his hairy knees.

Janeway had to save Tuvix by murdering him conceptually before every ounce of meat on his bones was jiggered into mist by the Ocampan's extremely powerful telekinesis.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

As long as we all remember Tuvix in our hearts he isn't really dead.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Are there other parts of my body I can remember him with?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Sometimes when I have a certain kind of cramp he comes to mind, so I guess there are a lot of possibilities.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Oh fuck.

He's metastasising.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Replicate him into his weight in chihuahuas.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Tuvok and Neelix were of more use to a ship with only 150-ish onboard and no way of sourcing replacement personnel, than Tuvix alone was.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tuvix was two people, therefore individually following your logic, Tuvix had more right to live than Neelix, and also more right to live than Tuvok.

Is it possible that Neelix's Ocampan Lung gave the the Tuvix personality some qualities that were Kes like in origin?

Maybe it wasn't Tuvok's unrestrained Romulan (Vulcan minus logic = Romulan.) sex drive that was pushing hiim towards Kes and it was Kes' own mastudation fetish that had no idea why the hands it was in control of were denied playing their favourite game.

 

[Michael]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Tuvok and Neelix were of more use to a ship with only 150-ish onboard and no way of sourcing replacement personnel, than Tuvix alone was.

Sorry, but I really detest that line of reasoning. I can only hope this is not something you or the majority of human population lives by. That would be a sad world to live in.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It's the perfect aphorism, if you super like the person you're putting ahead of a mob you say "the needs of the one outweigh.." and if you have to sacrifice someone to get the mission accomplished you say "the needs of the many outweigh.." You always win and sound wise and thoughtful.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The needs of the many is evil and the needs of the one is selfish.

It's a no win aphorism.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

But that is why it IS win, because you suffer for your choice and you get to tell people this and be profound and sympathetic.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tuvix doesn't get to tell people shit.

Even later in Riddles when Tuvok had been brain wiped and spent all his time baking cakes, it was Neelix who told Mr Vulcan to relent to the Doctor's knife and allow his new personality to be cut out.

This was the internal monologue of Tuvix made manifest.

Tuvok wanted to run and Neelix wanted to face the music.

Doesn't that seem backewards?

Of course the real lesson here is that Janeway doen't learn shit.

Tuvok was just asked to submit to lobotomisation.

She should have known that an armed guard was needed to drag him to sick bay and that the Doctor couldn't be trusted to execute "Nuvok" if he said something girly like "Pleaee, please don't kill me."

Fool me once?

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Tuvix was a better cook than Neelix and likely a better tactical officer than Tuvok. If he had thought ahead and anticipated the relentless cruelty that was about to befall him he would have deprogrammed the doctor to make him incapable of finding a solution.