About How Many People Perished In [SPOILERS]?
- Thread starter Shilliam Watner
- Start date
Given that the posts in this forum from now on are going to be about the actual content of the movie, perhaps the moderators should designate this entire forum as a open to spoilers?
This wins the thread for me.
As soon as each building defense system recognised an Earthquake type situation, each person in the building was beamed away immediately to the designated meeting point well away from San Francisco.
Why not, its the future - its possible.
Only the people on the street would have been in danger
Why not, its the future - its possible.
Only the people on the street would have been in danger
The entire forum is a spoiler minefield, yes, but we're not talking about post content. If the thread title contains a spoiler, then that spoiler is not only visible on the Trek XI+ Forum index, it's also potentially visible on:Given that the posts in this forum from now on are going to be about the actual content of the movie, perhaps the moderators should designate this entire forum as a open to spoilers?
* the TrekBBS Main Index
* the "Today's posts" list from the QuickLinks dropdown menu
* the Active Threads sidebar on the TrekToday main page
* and probably some other places which aren't coming immediately to mind.
* the "Today's posts" list from the QuickLinks dropdown menu
* the Active Threads sidebar on the TrekToday main page
* and probably some other places which aren't coming immediately to mind.
That's too many ways for someone avoiding spoilers to be inadvertently spoiled.
Therefore: Keep spoilers out of thread titles. It's the right and courteous thing to do.
This wins the thread for me.
Wins for me, too. The map certainly puts the disaster in perspective. Thanks, Locutus.
Great Graphic Locutus Of Borg!
That really clears up some misconceptions I held concerning the sequence.
That really clears up some misconceptions I held concerning the sequence.
Also, try to avoid titles using the word "motherfucker."
Ithink it is not realist:
1- it's more simple to build eartquake-prove buildings
2-i think there will many people who will not want to be transpondered
Maybe it's just me, but when Khan instructed the ship's computer to target Starfleet headquarters as its crash site, I couldn't help thinking a failsafe subroutine might have been in order.
As for the number of deaths, barring something like a mass evacuation transporter system, probably in the tens of thousands at least.
Which brings up an interesting question: Did Starfleet cover up Khan's involvement in the whole mess before re-freezing him and burying him along with his 72 followers in a secret vault somewhere? Otherwise, wouldn't he have been forced to stand trial for all that death and destruction with subsequent imprisonment or execution? Would Kirk and particularly Spock have gone along with that after everything they went through to bring Khan to "justice?"
As for the number of deaths, barring something like a mass evacuation transporter system, probably in the tens of thousands at least.
Which brings up an interesting question: Did Starfleet cover up Khan's involvement in the whole mess before re-freezing him and burying him along with his 72 followers in a secret vault somewhere? Otherwise, wouldn't he have been forced to stand trial for all that death and destruction with subsequent imprisonment or execution? Would Kirk and particularly Spock have gone along with that after everything they went through to bring Khan to "justice?"
He probably faced a trial and summarily pled guilty to any charges. As far as punishment goes, I thought refreezing Khan was almost an act of mercy, and may have actually made the most sense. As far as we know, there is no death penalty (in TOS, going to Talos IV was the only crime in the Federation punishable by death), and Khan would've been sentenced to spend the rest of his life on a penal planet, where he still may have presented some threat regardless of the level of security.
My guess is rather than face that punishment, Khan may have even begged to be put back to sleep with his compatriots (he told Marcus he should've let him sleep). And for the reasons stated above, it probably sounded reasonable to grant that wish. His fate and that of the other 72 is still problematic, of course. Is Khan to be kept in a cryo-state forever? Will any of the others ever be thawed out?
It was one of the more egregiously absurd parts of the movie. At least 100,000 dead and no mention is made of it whatsoever. The icing on the cake was the 'one year later' scene where they have that ceremony to rechristen the Enterprise. Yeah we slapped some new impulse engines on the ship, that's awesome... no need to mention that horrific act of terror that wiped out several city blocks.
I guess Earth doesn't have anything resembling air defense either.
Kirk mentioned that the ceremony was a rechristening of the Enterprise and to honor the dead - presumably both Starfleet and civilian - from the attack one year earlier. He also talked about how they shouldn't compromise their principles in the face of such an attack, so that was acknowledging it too. The audience was a mix of Starfleet and civilians. It is a year later, so I'm sure there have been several more elaborate and dedicated memorials for the victims in the past 12 months.
The movie was supposed to end on a hopeful note about going on a five-year mission of exploration and reclaiming their guiding principles. I don't see how it would have been improved with a more extensive memorial sequence than what was shown. But it certainly didn't gloss over the incident entirely as you suggest.
The destruction of Vulcan is followed up on multiple times in STiD. It's the motivation for Marcus to pursue his more aggressive stance. It's the reason why Spock has repressed his emotions even more so than usual, as he told Uhura during their trip to Kronos.
And, though it wasn't mentioned in the film itself, I find it highly likely that Spock's choice to also disobey orders and save the society on Nibiru from destruction when their orders were only to observe the culture was motivated by the genocide of his people. He didn't want to see another species face extinction like his has. Kirk's disobedience is the focus of Pike's and Starfleet's anger because he lied on his report, but Spock disobeyed orders as well and was briefly chastised by Pike.
Other events from the previous film were followed up on, as well. The ongoing state of hostilities in the Laurentian System, presumably with the Klingons. The transwarp beaming method. Kirk's lack of completion of the full Academy curriculum, which they were going to send him back to finish after he screwed up. SpockPrime made another appearance.
So, considering all that followup to the first film, and that the destruction of San Francisco came at the end of this movie, it's awfully premature to say that this incident won't further the storyline in future installments. Especially since the film ended with a pretty obvious hint at lasting repercussions in the form of Khan and his fellow Augments still being alive and held in the Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse where they'll undoubtedly be thawed out by some unscrupulous person or persons eventually.
Good points all.
The "Botany Bay 73" still alive, and we don't know what the consequences of any hearings into Admiral Marcus' actions may be...and for whom.
Kirk may see his "five year mission" as a reward. Who might see it as a way to get potential future nuisances out of their scalps?
The "Botany Bay 73" still alive, and we don't know what the consequences of any hearings into Admiral Marcus' actions may be...and for whom.
Kirk may see his "five year mission" as a reward. Who might see it as a way to get potential future nuisances out of their scalps?
