Pretty much my take on this as well. I liked the movie, thought it was a great scifi movie and intend on getting the DVD. Was it a good Star Trek movie? No, IMO it wasn't.
A TOS (only) fan's reaction
- Thread starter A beaker full of death
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Pretty much my take on this as well. I liked the movie, thought it was a great scifi movie and intend on getting the DVD. Was it a good Star Trek movie? No, IMO it wasn't.
I don't have time to readddd through this whole thread, but just refresh my memory as to when this was established on screen in the original series or films. Not books, interviews, unfilmd scenes or conjecture based on things open for interpretation.
Cuz I hear this a lot, but have never seen this said.
startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
Why didn't you like Pine's version of Kirk i loved him
(I'm done with the plot point discussion; you're straining at a gnat in defense of a movie where a cadet is promoted straight to captain--of the fleet's newest, finest ship, no less)
See, this is the kind of (major) detail that makes me wonder how people can take the film seriously enough to even be entertained by it, let alone claim it as some kind of quality movie.
Or, to be more properly subjective about it: this is the kind of plot point that ultimately derailed my ability to enjoy Trek XI beyond repair.
Star Trek is full of flaws... from TOS to the latest film. If its flaws made me hate it, I would never have been a Trek fan.
The new movie has its flaws and a few WTF moments may be found, but overall... ST09 IS Trek. When all is said and done this is all that matters to me... and apparently to many others.
The new movie has its flaws and a few WTF moments may be found, but overall... ST09 IS Trek. When all is said and done this is all that matters to me... and apparently to many others.
I guess you you could say that's how I see it. This is not the Trek I became a fan of but it evoked enough of that--while giving me a fun enough ride overall--that I still enjoyed it... a lot. It deposed FC as my third favorite Trek film (not that hard, really, as I'm pretty much a TOS kind of guy and FC was the only TNG film I liked).
TMP and TWoK, however, have it all over the slickly produced and breakneck paced Trek XI if only because Trek XI is, at its core, such a vacuous film. Trek may have had its absurdities but, at its best, it was never as profoundly stupid as the Abrams film. After a while, those posters who claim otherwise cease to be either annoying or amusing but become, rather, objects of pity.
EDIT: I take that back. They're still pretty fucking annoying.
In Jameson veritas.
TMP and TWoK, however, have it all over the slickly produced and breakneck paced Trek XI if only because Trek XI is, at its core, such a vacuous film. Trek may have had its absurdities but, at its best, it was never as profoundly stupid as the Abrams film. After a while, those posters who claim otherwise cease to be either annoying or amusing but become, rather, objects of pity.
EDIT: I take that back. They're still pretty fucking annoying.
In Jameson veritas.
XI certainly has its flaws.
However, it still managed to be the most fun I've had watching Star Trek since I was eleven and my first opportunity to share my enjoyment of Star Trek with other flesh-and-blood human beings in longer that I care to remember.
Also, I think that an emphasis on the humor and Flash Gordon-esque space adventure elements of Star Trek is as valid an interpretation of TOS as the emphases on the literary/speculative science fiction and naval adventure on the high seas elements were in previous films.
Incidentally, my three favorite Trek films are TMP, TWOK, and XI... with the specific order depending on my mood.
However, it still managed to be the most fun I've had watching Star Trek since I was eleven and my first opportunity to share my enjoyment of Star Trek with other flesh-and-blood human beings in longer that I care to remember.
Also, I think that an emphasis on the humor and Flash Gordon-esque space adventure elements of Star Trek is as valid an interpretation of TOS as the emphases on the literary/speculative science fiction and naval adventure on the high seas elements were in previous films.
Incidentally, my three favorite Trek films are TMP, TWOK, and XI... with the specific order depending on my mood.
Thing is, I think the movie could have given us that Flash Gordon feel (and I do so love that part of Trek) without insulting our intelligence.
The Ultimate Computer - Spock has to explain a term to McCoy that is used by midshipmen at Starfleet Academy
The Menagerie - Spock surrenders himself to McCoy as ranking officer, but turns command over to a line officer (I forget who now).
McCoy, for his part, has no idea what to do with Spock.
There was also an often cut line somewhere else, which I only saw once, which was even more explicit, but I just don't remember it, and I don't ask anyone to take my word for it.
Aside from all that, the extrinsic evidence (Rodenberry's modeling the functioning of Starfleet after the US Navy of WWII; some language (I forget just what) in the writer's bible) is incontrovertible.
startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
maybe it does have flaws but I don't care
Starfleet Medical trains doctors; Starfleet Command trains officers. McCoy was 'just an old country doctor' so he definitely didn't train as a doctor at Star fleet Medical but to be a CMO, he must have spent a year at Starfleet Command undergoing officer training. In TOS, not every officer started out at Starfleet from a teenager. Chapel also obtained her qualifications outside Starfleet but took a quickie nursing (possibly officer training) course to get on a ship to get looking for Korby.
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I would expect that doctors in Starfleet both study for their doctorate (at Starfleet Medical? or other universities in the galaxy), and also do courses at Starfleet Academy.
The film doesn't say that McCoy was doing all the same subjects as Spock did, or as Kirk was doing. And, in TOS, I wouldn't expect McCoy to know the courses studied by midshipmen either.
As usual, you and i could be twins separated at birth. YES! Star Trek has always been full of flaws.....every single episode, every single movie, every single incarnation. To think that the new movie doesnt measure up because it has it's own flaws is just crazy.
Its all science fiction, not science fact. And this movie was FUN. Its been a looong time since i've had FUN in a Star Trek movie!
Exactly. Doctors, lawyers and chaplains who enter the military do so fully formed, as professionals. They get officer training for about four months and then get commissioned as officers.
This was certainly the mold in which the creators of the series were working, and that which was understood by their audience, primarily made up of WWII veterans and their kids. The reason Roddenberry based starfleet procedures on WWII ships, even though the series was inspired by navies of the 1790s, was because those procedures were familiar to the audience.
Yes, about 4 months of officer training. Not three years.
At at no time was it stated that JJ's McCoy spent the entire three years studying beside Kirk at the Academy.
Here in Australia, people training to be school teachers can do a three year university course in their specialty subject, but can spread their fourth year (in teaching method) across the entire length of the course, or do it in one lump at the end of their specialty course. Personal choice.
McCoy not attending the academy always seemed silly to me. It seems like every person posted to a starship would need some training in the basics, at least. What happens in an emergency situation of a doctor or nurse is the only person handy?
Also, and I don't remember this ever being covered on screen, I wonder how much xeno-biology and xeno-medicine is covered in the standard 23rd century medical degree. The education required to be a spacefaring physician would likely be daunting.
Right. The implication was that McCoy was serving at Starfleet Command or the Academy as a doctor... as evidenced by his reaction when Kirk wanted him present at the Kobyashi Maru-"Jim, I'm a Doctor. I'm busy." Note that he didn't say, "Jim, I have classes to attend. I'm busy."
Also, and I don't remember this ever being covered on screen, I wonder how much xeno-biology and xeno-medicine is covered in the standard 23rd century medical degree. The education required to be a spacefaring physician would likely be daunting.
Right. The implication was that McCoy was serving at Starfleet Command or the Academy as a doctor... as evidenced by his reaction when Kirk wanted him present at the Kobyashi Maru-"Jim, I'm a Doctor. I'm busy." Note that he didn't say, "Jim, I have classes to attend. I'm busy."
Since the film established McCoy was a Doctor prior to joining Starfleet,a three year course in xeno-medicine and some Starfleet training makes sense.
My theory on McCoy:
I suspect he served as a doctor while studying for certain qualifications unique to being in Starfleet.
It would make sense that his studies would be vaguely something like:
- Non-human biology and anatomy.
- Diplomacy in medical situations.
- Medical effects of spacial anomalies.
- Starfleet procedures and ranks 101.
- Starfleet Medical procedures and regulations 101.
and probably a host of other things we don't know about.
Being a skilled surgeon on Earth is one thing, being a skilled Surgeon on a Starship with multiple species and diplomacy is proably a very different ballgame.
He could be serving as a Doctor while studying, probably assisting more seasoned doctors at a Starfleet Academy on-campus medical facility.
That's my speculation anyway.
I suspect he served as a doctor while studying for certain qualifications unique to being in Starfleet.
It would make sense that his studies would be vaguely something like:
- Non-human biology and anatomy.
- Diplomacy in medical situations.
- Medical effects of spacial anomalies.
- Starfleet procedures and ranks 101.
- Starfleet Medical procedures and regulations 101.
and probably a host of other things we don't know about.
Being a skilled surgeon on Earth is one thing, being a skilled Surgeon on a Starship with multiple species and diplomacy is proably a very different ballgame.
He could be serving as a Doctor while studying, probably assisting more seasoned doctors at a Starfleet Academy on-campus medical facility.
That's my speculation anyway.
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