Obviously Oxmyx's men arrived after Kirk, Spock and McCoy had not only completed materializing (no more sparkling), but had had time to look around for a short while wondering where their escort was.
A theory on Daedalus Class.
- Thread starter NaughtyTrekkie
- Start date
And obviously Oxmyx's men saw Kirk and company materialize off-camera, and then joined them afterwards, since that's the only way the later scene that I described in my last post makes any sense. I'll say it again for clarity, since you conveniently left it out when you quoted me: Why would the goon need to tell Oxmyx about the idiosyncrasies of transporter use if Oxmyx and all the other Iotians already knew about transporters? It's far more likely that he was telling Oxmyx exactly what he had witnessed when Kirk initially beamed down, and not some historical info from a century ago that the goon would probably have no way of knowing anyway.
Remember the kid who told Kirk that if he opened up he'd be scrubbed from every window on the street? I'm pretty confident that Oxmyx's goons were observing the transporter sequence from a concealed position, then after seeing them beam down, they came out of whatever building they were holed up in, which took a few moments. It's basically nonsensical that they would all have previous knowledge about transporter tech given all the other cues in the episode.
--Alex
--Alex
Don't worry, all your posting are intact so anyone who chooses too can read them in their entirety.
Oxmyx "goon" likely knows more than the boss on this subject, leaders often rely on experts in different fields to advise them. The "goon" would seem to be a senior man, we see him a lot, and Oxmyx gives him important assignments.
His knowledge on the previous visitors could be why Oxmyx sent him to gather Kirk and company in the first place.
I have to wonder if, during other eras, the Federation acquired designs that were "little, cheap, highly standardized, fast-to-build" ships.
From what I can tell from online diagrams, the Daedalus design was considerably smaller than the Miranda..
From what I can tell from online diagrams, the Daedalus design was considerably smaller than the Miranda..
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Well, you're entitled to your rather bizarre opinion that contradicts what we actually see in the episode, but it wouldn't be the first time that someone tried reconciling a hypothesis by ignoring what's right on the screen.
Not a single Iotian that was transported knew what was going on. Kirk flat-out states that they wouldn't understand transporting. Oxmyx had to be told that people are frozen when they transport. And yet you're basing your entire assumption on one guy who makes one comment about the transporter, who happens to be the same guy who met Kirk when he beamed down and most likely saw him beam.
So by all means feel free to think that guy is something special and has more knowledge about ancient history than everyone else. He certainly looked quite scholarly to me.
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What the heck is that supposed to be?
I'm in complete agreement; the only reasons fans acted like this was because many of them thought that Trip/Connor Trinneer was a sexy man whom many of them wanted to lay (as if they were 16 years old again and in love with a teen idol.
) These people don't seem to understand that in the navy, a person could die on a mission, which Trip did.This again ignores the whole point of the episode: that the Iotians are playacting.
Lines like Kalo's are scripted; roles like Kalo's are cast. The Iotians agree to divide themselves into guys and dolls, bosses and hitmen. They have reshaped their entire planet to resemble what in original Earth was a tiny subset of the society, a subset that could never form the basis of a global society. Heck, they have apparently reshaped their bodies to conform to the gangster/moll ideal!
Kirk isn't confronting real gangsters here, but a bunch of reenactors who make a great effort to appear like gangsters. And not for Kirk's benefit, but for the joy of the thing itself. Of course they would say silly things to each other in private - that's the whole point.
Whether it follows that the Horizon had a transporter... Uh, what really follows is that we can't tell. Iotia twists reality worse than an eager-to-please holodeck. Worse still, it confuses the heroes into forgetting all about their mission, so we never get a chance to see their side of the Horizon issue.
Timo Saloniemi
That's Admiral Marcus looking at a model of the movie's super secret highly classified ship, which he has openly displayed in his office.
You mean like someone ignoring that Oxmyx men first arrive after the landing party are just standing around?
I don't have a problem with Trip being killed (although they could have done it different), it''s the silly concept the novel(s) put forward that the death was faked.
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You said the NX-01 didn't exist. Chemakhuu is showing you that it did (look at the models.)
Who is ignoring that Oxmyx's men first arrive after the landing party are standing around? Certainly not I. I made it very clear, as did you, that Oxmyx's men meet up with Kirk after they beam down, since that's what is seen in the episode. I also made it clear that for the goon to have made the statement he did to Oxmyx, he had to have seen Kirk beam down before meeting him, whether the scene shows that or not. So logic dictates that the guy observed Kirk beaming off-camera, perhaps in a building as Albertese speculated. Not sure why that's so hard to understand.
Whether the Iotians are "playacting" or not is irrelevant. If they really are just playacting, then they're not playacting enough to show that this is an exact copy of 1930's Chicago, because they talk about being met by aliens who provided them with alien tech manuals and alien devices. It isn't a case of the Organians hiding their true selves (which was playacting). The audience is fully aware that these people are truly showing how far they have advanced, which is at least to the point where they still don't have transporter tech or even know what it is. If they were truly playacting, as soon as Kirk started beaming people everywhere, they would have said, "Ok, stop, time out, we're supposed to be in the 1930's here, you can't use transporters, that would be anachronistic!!!"
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Hmm. I've never heard of an Admiral Marcus.
Yes, I saw the models. But I can't place which Star Trek television series or movie that scene is from.
Kirk can do whatever he wishes; it's the Iotians who have to play by the rules.
It's clear they are not limited "objectively" by being Chicago gansters - because Chicago gangsters could not have built Chicago. So it's doubly obvious that they are limiting themselves. They play it out the way they believe their hallowed stereotypical gangsters would handle alien contact, is all.
What Kirk is doing is the irrelevant part. He's dealing with a superior civilization here, one that treats visits by mighty starships as a form of entertainment. It's silly human hubris to think that the crew of the Horizon "uplifted" them from the 1700s-1800s to the 1920s by leaving behind a couple of books; they did that all by themselves - and no doubt had done that a thousand times before, whenever starships paid a visit. And they probably did it with transporters and replicators, because less would not suffice.
Timo Saloniemi
There exists a certain belief among some fans that the series Enterprise is actually set in the Abrams universe and not the prime universe. So there could be a NX series starship in Marcus' office, but not one on the rec room wall of the TMP Enterprise, or the Enterprise D's observation lounge.
The events of Star Trek: Enterprise never happen (prime-verse).
This would be one explaination the DS9 numbering of the Enterprises at five.
To the other running matter, part of the dispute as to whether the Iotians previously knew about transporters (and not moving) is base on the (imo) flawed belief the the Horizon wouldn't have had transporter capacity. This implies that 2165 era exploration starships lacked this capacity. There no indication that transporters were anything new in the 23rd century, and no reason to assume that a earlier exploration starship wouldn't have them. In the 2165 era when the Horizon sent it's signal, the Horizon was a hundred lightyears beyond where it's lightspeed signal was eventually picked up in the 2265 era, however far out that was. This to me doesn't sound like the Horizon was a boomer freighter.
As a side mention, people can move while being transported, there are multiple examples in TOS of people being in one position when they dematerialize and another when they materialize at their destination. However the Horizon era transporters might have had a "no movement" aspect. Which would have been what Oxmyx's man was talking about.
It's from the movie Star Trek Into Darkness.
Hold on a sec. I never said that the Horizon didn't have transporter capability. I said that the Iotians weren't familiar with transporters. Kirk's line about the Enterprise not landing is evidence that the Horizon itself landed on the planet 100 years before. So there wouldn't have been a need to use a transporter if the whole ship lands. For all I know the ship did have transporters, but like what Scotty said in STB, they were probably only used at that time for transporting cargo, not people.
This is all just subjective opinion that doesn't match what we see and are told in the episode itself.
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Hmm. You must be mistaken. There is no Star Trek film by that title.
Being deliberately obtuse about the Abrams Trek films does not negate their existence. It just makes it hard to take you seriously, which I won't be doing anymore.
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No, it's Kirk's statement that the Enterprise would not be landing.
If the Horizon were a Daedalus then a landing would seem to be impossible owing to the (usually attributed) design. The ring ship can't apparently land. Neither of the two Earth starship designs we saw in ST: Enterprise would appear to be capable of landing. The J class freighter we saw also appeared to possess no landing capacity.
A landing capacity doesn't seem to be a standard part of a starship's design in the 22nd century.
Well STB takes place in a alternate universe, so nuScotty's comment isn't germane.
The the TAS episode The Terratin Incident, the colony ship(s) left Earth the later 21st century, in the 23rd century they possessed the transporter technology to beam multiple people down from orbit. Personally, I think it unlikely that a small colony independently advanced transporter technology from cargo only to safe for people.
And the Terratin colonists couldn't have possibly been contacted in the 22nd century by any of the dozens of other peoples with transporter technology? Seems like this one is a pretty standard bit of kit and anyone with "modern" technology in the Star Trek context gets to have one. Just cause it wasn't standard issue on Earth ships of the 22nd C doesn't mean NOBODY had them.
--Alex
--Alex
I was disagreeing with the novels reviving him (I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.)
