A Question on Friday's Child

[Methuselah Flint]

Is it not a violation of the Prime Directive, contacting the far more primitive tribe in Friday's Child? (The Halkans in Mirror, Mirror I can understand - they seem far further along the evolutionary scale, perhaps even capable of warp - but not the Capellans. Likewise, the Enterprise was required to see if the Horizon had caused any after effects in A Piece of the Action.)

Thoughts?

 

[FormerLurker]

It's stated that an exception is being made in this case, as the Capellans live on a world rich in a mineral called Topaline that both the Federation and the Klingons use in their space vessels (in their atmosphere processing, IIRC). Both governments sent representatives to negotiate mining treaties. The Klingons cheated.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't believe the Prime Directive comes up in Friday's Child.

 

[johnnybear]

Maybe contact with the Capellans first occurred before the Prime directive was initiated or the Federation were aware that many other races had contacted the tribes before and saw no harm in going there anyway!
JB

 

[Timo]

Until last Sunday, there was nothing in the Prime Directive about warp drive. The vague rule merely prevented Starfleet from meddling in the affairs of others, be they cavemen or Klingons.

DSC "Para Bellum" has Burnham for the first time in Trek airing history refer to the PD as applying to pre-warp civilizations, but still no proof that it wouldn't apply to other types as well. Yet TOS has the heroes or their colleagues making contact with primitive folks left and right, even when the PD is brought up as a concern: there's always an excuse there.

But no doubt the key issue is whether contact would be a new thing. If Capellans already know all about space aliens, no reason Starfleet couldn't beam down to negotiate a deal or two. And if a species has warp, then it's a given that they know about space aliens.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EnsignHarper]

Until last Sunday, there was nothing in the Prime Directive about warp drive. The vague rule merely prevented Starfleet from meddling in the affairs of others, be they cavemen or Klingons.

DSC "Para Bellum" has Burnham for the first time in Trek airing history refer to the PD as applying to pre-warp civilizations, but still no proof that it wouldn't apply to other types as well. Yet TOS has the heroes or their colleagues making contact with primitive folks left and right, even when the PD is brought up as a concern: there's always an excuse there.

But no doubt the key issue is whether contact would be a new thing. If Capellans already know all about space aliens, no reason Starfleet couldn't beam down to negotiate a deal or two. And if a species has warp, then it's a given that they know about space aliens.

Timo Saloniemi

It was mentioned first (I believe), in TNG's "First Contact" - THAT planet wa showing signs of pre-war[p development, so the Federation sent 1701-D there to do a initial survey of the culture AS A MATTER OF COURSE, to be ready for them when they do reach such a level.

 

[MAGolding]

Is it not a violation of the Prime Directive, contacting the far more primitive tribe in Friday's Child? (The Halkans in Mirror, Mirror I can understand - they seem far further along the evolutionary scale, perhaps even capable of warp - but not the Capellans. Likewise, the Enterprise was required to see if the Horizon had caused any after effects in A Piece of the Action.)

Thoughts?

A perhaps partial definition of the (full force) Prime Directive is given in "Bread and Circuses":

KIRK: The SS Beagle was the first ship to make a survey of this star sector when it disappeared.
SPOCK: Then the Prime Directive is in full force, Captain?
KIRK: No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet.
MCCOY: No references to space, or the fact that there are other worlds, or more advanced civilisations.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/43.htm

Dr. McCoy had contacted the 12 Tribes of Capella previously.

MCCOY: They're quite large. Seven feet tall is not unusual. They're extremely fast and strong. Lieutenant?
(Uhura turns on a monitor) Make no mistake. They can be highly dangerous. The Capellans' basic weapon, the kligat. At any distance up to a hundred yards, they can make it almost as effective against a man as a phaser.
(On the monitor, we see McCoy being given a demonstration in which a small sapling is cut in half by one of these hand-thrown objects.)
MCCOY: In addition, an assortment of swords and knives.

SCOTT: How long were you stationed on the planet, Doctor?
MCCOY: Only a few months. We found them totally uninterested in medical aid or hospitals. They believe only the strong should survive

(Kirk, Spock, McCoy and one security guard beam down.)
MAAB: Halt! You are of the Earth vessel?

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/32.htm

When McCoy's group was on the planet before, they apparently offered to give medical aid and were turned down. Maab knows about space ships and Earth. So Capella is definitely not covered by the (full) prime directive and was not when McCoy was there before. Though of course the (partial) prime directive not to interfere or force sociological change is still in operation.

 

[Timo]

A perhaps partial definition of the (full force) Prime Directive is given in "Bread and Circuses":

I'd say clearly partial: Kirk is just listing the bits that are relevant to the recce mission, that is, the extra need for discretion.

In general, I'd argue that General Order One and the Prime Directive are different things. The latter does not sound like military terminology at all, and may well be a civilian political concept that different parties are obligated to follow to different degrees. But Starfleet has the General Order #1 that lays down the rules of when and where the Prime Directive is to be followed by Starfleet personnel, and to what extent.

From what we later learn, Starfleet has to obey the PD more strictly than civilians (say, "Angel One"), which is a nice safeguard to have considering Starfleet is the party with the starships and other WMDs. But the PD being a policy, politicians could decide by themselves whether to follow it or not (and whether to modify it etc.), and Kirk often gets to be chauffeur to politicians acting in apparent contradiction of the PD. Quite possibly a set of politicians decided that Capella can be contacted, after which Starfleet would merely check the box in GO#1 that says "unless given a-okay by the UFP government" and proceed.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TOSalltheway]

I always felt that since the Klingons let the cat out of the bag...

 

[BillJ]

The creation of warp drive is the dumbest litmus test for whether or not to contact someone. Could you see us with warp drive today? What are the odds we would run into someone else?

There should be an examination of the society to see if they are ready for contact on a social level.

 

[Kor]

Until last Sunday, there was nothing in the Prime Directive about warp drive. ...

...

I thought the idea of not contacting pre-warp species dated back to TNG days.

Kor

 

[johnnybear]

I like to think that while McCoy was on Capella with the twelve tribes, Kirk and Spock were on Organia facing Kor and The Klingons!
This due to the fact that McCoy was not in Errand of Mercy!
JB

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

The creation of warp drive is the dumbest litmus test for whether or not to contact someone. Could you see us with warp drive today? What are the odds we would run into someone else?

There should be an examination of the society to see if they are ready for contact on a social level.

I always figured part of the reasoning was that once any culture develops FTL capability, they're almost unavoidably going to be coming into contact with others, sooner or later. The right to freely swing one's arm ending where another's nose begins, and all that.

Another interesting wrinkle from "The Return of the Archons" (TOS):

SPOCK: Captain, our Prime Directive of non-interference...
KIRK: That refers to a living, growing culture. Do you think this one is?

And similarly in "A Private Little War" (TOS) this seems to be a determination that is made on a case by case basis through observation:

MCCOY: Want to think about it again, Jim? Starfleet's orders about this planet state: "No interference with..."
KIRK: "No interference with normal social development." I'm not only aware of it, it was my survey thirteen years ago that recommended it.
MCCOY: I read it. "Inhabitants superior in many ways to humans. Left alone, they undoubtedly someday will develop a remarkably advanced and peaceful culture..."

I always felt that since the Klingons let the cat out of the bag...

With respect to Neural, that was Kirk's reasoning as well:

KIRK: Bones, the normal development of this planet was the status quo between the hill people and the villagers. The Klingons changed that with the flintlocks. If this planet is to develop the way it should, we must equalize both sides again.

"Archons" also ends with them leaving behind a party of sociologists and other experts on Beta III tasked with "help[ing] restore the planet's culture to a human form" too, although this rather confuddles the whole matter. It wasn't just an attempt to undo their "own" interference, as Landru had ruled the planet for six thousand years and the Archon had only come there a century earlier. Despite the parallels it wasn't a case of cultural contamination like "Patterns Of Force" (TOS) or "A Piece Of The Action" (TOS). It's a bit of an odd one, that.

-MMoM

 

[UssGlenn]

SPOCK: Captain, our Prime Directive of non-interference...
KIRK: That refers to a living, growing culture. Do you think this one is?

I think this might be Kirk's personal interpretation of "No interference with normal social development." That is to say, if a culture is stagnate, then there is no social development and thus no prohibition on interfering. Whether that justification would stand up to scrutiny by a legal authority is another matter.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

^Right, it's certainly his interpretation...but there doesn't seem to be any suggestion that it's one beyond his legal authority to make. Again, in "A Private Little War"—even years before the Klingons became involved—young Lieutenant Kirk's survey of Neural had to provide a recommendation as to whether the culture was developing normally and thus should not be interfered with. But, of course, we can interpret this as basically being a certification that the culture hasn't already been interfered with by someone else. And maybe it's the fact that the Archon's prior visit to Beta III clearly has become significant to their culture, to some extent, that is considered sufficient justification for making the case of the door being already "open" to further interference.

I do rather like the idea that (at this time at least) the directive is exactly that, an overall guiding principle or philosophy, enforced by a standing general order with respect to Starfleet, but not necessarily an ironclad law.

-MMoM

 

[johnnybear]

Obviously The Klingons have no regard for The Prime Directive judging by their missions on Capella IV and Neural! By giving the Hill people weapons they might later on have a base on Neural in which to spy on The Federation and the same with Capella!
Michael Dante sent me birthday greetings last week on FB which was a pretty nice gesture I thought!
JB

 

[Timo]

Agreed that acquisition of warp drive is merely the very last point at which a civilization may remain virgin, and significant for that reason. But before DSC "Para Bellum", nobody put that into words. TNG "First Contact" just shows the Federation butting in when a culture is on the verge of warp drive, and pulling back when they delay their warp project, without explicating the Prime Directive further.

I'd assume the UFP would wish to delay contact till the last possible moment, if it finds value in noninterference to begin with. Which is why warp drive sometimes counts (it could be subspace radio, too, but that apparently is more difficult to invent than warp drive, and generally will only be invented as the result of the drive invention - the planet in "Pen Pals" is a rare exception, or then did have warp but still warranted full PD protection, which is quite possible in certain cases). But visitations by space folks are also likely endpoints to cultural virginity in the Trek universe, and the places involved such as Capella certainly warrant those visitations for their natural resources.

Why do the two empires compete for Tyree's planet? McCoy is hot and bothered about the medical plants, but his studies are apparently required before the UFP can believe in those plants. Are the Klingons after those, too?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FormerLurker]

It's fairly clear on Neural that the Klingons want both a beachhead in Federation space, and to mess around with the native culture(s). As Klingon representatives have condemned advanced medicine in the past, it's probable they have no interest in that area, so they may be simply wanting to see how far they can drive one side of the native populace into a hardline militaristic sinkhole before they either push back, or are destroyed.

 

[Spock's Barber]

Obviously The Klingons have no regard for The Prime Directive judging by their missions on Capella IV and Neural!
JB

There are a few times when Kirk shoves the Prime Directive out the window, too.

"We've got...to...HELP....these PEO-PLE."

Sorry, that was my best Shatner impersonation.

 

[johnnybear]

I'm not sure they're sure too!
JB