A question about Regeneration

[Mr. Laser Beam]

When a Time Lord says they're on their [nth] regeneration, does this mean it's their [nth] self, or that they've regenerated [n] times?

I got to thinking about this when I saw that clip from "Hell Bent" when the Doctor asks the General what regeneration he's on, and the General says "Tenth." Does this mean that, at that time, the General is currently on his 10th self, or that he's regenerated 10 times (which would mean it's the 11th General)?

Also...and I guess this is TWO questions about regeneration ... after the General regenerates into a woman, she says "Back to normal?" which implies that she prefers being female. Yet in "Destiny of the Daleks", Romana appears to have some degree of control over what her next regeneration will be. I take it, then, that some Time Lords have more control over their regeneration than others?

 

[Timewalker]

When a Time Lord says they're on their [nth] regeneration, does this mean it's their [nth] self, or that they've regenerated [n] times?

I got to thinking about this when I saw that clip from "Hell Bent" when the Doctor asks the General what regeneration he's on, and the General says "Tenth." Does this mean that, at that time, the General is currently on his 10th self, or that he's regenerated 10 times (which would mean it's the 11th General)?

It means how many times they've regenerated. My reference for this is "The Five Doctors", when the First Doctor and the Fifth Doctor meet. The dialogue goes as follows:

First Doctor: "Regeneration?"
Fifth Doctor: "Fourth."
First Doctor: "Goodness! So there are five of me now!"

Also...and I guess this is TWO questions about regeneration ... after the General regenerates into a woman, she says "Back to normal?" which implies that she prefers being female. Yet in "Destiny of the Daleks", Romana appears to have some degree of control over what her next regeneration will be. I take it, then, that some Time Lords have more control over their regeneration than others?

We don't know precisely why Romana regenerated. There have been lots of fanfic stories to explain it. My own personal speculation is that it was due to a delayed reaction to the torture she underwent in "The Armageddon Factor."

Romana is presented as top of her class... super-intelligent, acing all her Time Lord Academy classes, but lacking in practical experience. So it's not surprising to me that she had exquisite control over her regeneration, and it wasn't one of the split-second emergency regenerations the Doctor usually has when he just has to take pot luck.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

We don't know precisely why Romana regenerated. There have been lots of fanfic stories to explain it. My own personal speculation is that it was due to a delayed reaction to the torture she underwent in "The Armageddon Factor."

Well, I wouldn't call the books and audio plays fanfic. I don't know about the books, but Big Finish has posited two different explanations for the regenerations, although they're not entirely incompatible (but nothing really is in the Who universe where anything can be hand waved with enough squinting).

Romana is presented as top of her class... super-intelligent, acing all her Time Lord Academy classes, but lacking in practical experience. So it's not surprising to me that she had exquisite control over her regeneration, and it wasn't one of the split-second emergency regenerations the Doctor usually has when he just has to take pot luck.

This was the explanation I always went with until Big Finish provided their own takes.

 

[Timewalker]

Well, I wouldn't call the books and audio plays fanfic. I don't know about the books, but Big Finish has posited two different explanations for the regenerations, although they're not entirely incompatible (but nothing really is in the Who universe where anything can be hand waved with enough squinting).

I never said they were fanfic. When I say "fanfic" I mean fiction written by fans, and either published in a fanzine or posted online on fanfiction sites. Pro novels, short stories, and Big Finish audios are not fanfic.

This was the explanation I always went with until Big Finish provided their own takes.

I've never heard any of those.

 

[Nightowl1701]

From the Doctor Who wiki:

1: One account said that, unknown to the Doctor, Romana was harmed by the Key to Time. (A delayed reaction, just as you said, Timewalker, allowing her to have a few more adventures with Four first.) Just as she was about to regenerate, an anthropomorphised manifestation of the Doctor's TARDIS, jealous of her, trapped her in a force field and pretended to be her. The TARDIS changed into different forms and finally became a double of Princess Astra. (In other words, Sexy was the 'Romana' that faced the Destiny of the Daleks with Four.) Realising the error of its ways after that (episode), it released Romana, but not before making her assume the form of Astra. (This came from the short-story anthology Short Trips: Companions.)
2: Romana forced her own regeneration to prevent an ancient Gallifreyan evil called Pandora from gaining power over her. (BF's Gallifrey, Season 2 opener)
3: When the Key to Time was assembled without the sixth piece, it left Princess Astra and was absorbed by Romana. The strain (eventually) forced a regeneration. (BF: Fifth Doctor episode, 'The Key 2 Time - The Chaos Pool.' This does seem to fit with account 1.)
4: Romana was simply fed up of the Doctor thinking that she was too serious and not any fun, so regenerated as a deliberate act of recklessness to prove him otherwise. (City of Death novelization)

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Regeneration was simple in the old show and i liked that, now it's all complicated and timmy whimmy. Lol

 

[thribs]

The audio story Zagreus gives us most of the information about regenerations. When Rassalon developed it, it is said that it changes every cell in your body with the exception of the brain that only slightly changes, hence keeping the person more-or-less the same. He limited it so the person could only have 12 regenerations as any more increases the chance of more of the brain to change with it which causes health issues. Some people say this is where the Valeyard comes to be but i believe the "Trail of the Valeyard" has a different origin.
This was also the reason why your gender stays the same but they've sort of gone mad with all the gender swapping in recent years making that not true sadly.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Honestly, BF's explanation as presented in that Fifth Doctor trilogy is a pretty good one. The fact that the Fourth Doctor didn't even ask why she had regenerated also fits his aloofness in that time, so its OK.

 

[starsuperion]

I think a Time lord can call their regens any number they want.. as shown by the War Doctor and possibly the Valeyard..
I also think a Time lord can call their 4th Regen their 2nd, based on a metric where every body they come into has a different hair colour. So when you were a 1st Doctor with ginger hair, and go thru blonde, and brown, by the 4th reincarnation, you could say that you're the 2nd regen because of your gingery hair.. it's subjective to the individual time lord I suppose.

 

[Timewalker]

I think a Time lord can call their regens any number they want.. as shown by the War Doctor and possibly the Valeyard..
I also think a Time lord can call their 4th Regen their 2nd, based on a metric where every body they come into has a different hair colour. So when you were a 1st Doctor with ginger hair, and go thru blonde, and brown, by the 4th reincarnation, you could say that you're the 2nd regen because of your gingery hair.. it's subjective to the individual time lord I suppose.

This does not even begin to make sense.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I think a Time lord can call their regens any number they want.. as shown by the War Doctor and possibly the Valeyard..
I also think a Time lord can call their 4th Regen their 2nd, based on a metric where every body they come into has a different hair colour. So when you were a 1st Doctor with ginger hair, and go thru blonde, and brown, by the 4th reincarnation, you could say that you're the 2nd regen because of your gingery hair.. it's subjective to the individual time lord I suppose.

Sure, if the question is modified in such a way to include the specific traits you mention.
If it‘s just a straight: Which regeneration?, then no.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I think a Time lord can call their regens any number they want.. as shown by the War Doctor and possibly the Valeyard..
I also think a Time lord can call their 4th Regen their 2nd, based on a metric where every body they come into has a different hair colour. So when you were a 1st Doctor with ginger hair, and go thru blonde, and brown, by the 4th reincarnation, you could say that you're the 2nd regen because of your gingery hair.. it's subjective to the individual time lord I suppose.

It doesn't alter the fact the timelord gets 13 bodies (outside of being given a new batch of course).

One just hopes he doesn't blindly convince himself he's "the 1st or the 6th" when he's actually the 13th, trips over a brick and dies without wrapping up his affairs.

 

[starsuperion]

It doesn't alter the fact the timelord gets 13 bodies (outside of being given a new batch of course).

One just hopes he doesn't blindly convince himself he's "the 1st or the 6th" when he's actually the 13th, trips over a brick and dies without wrapping up his affairs.

Whoa!! LMAO!! I haven't laughed out loud like that since being a member here in a long long time.. this just got me tho.. Brilliant!

 

[Tom]

I sometimes think regeneration 'energy' are just advanced nanites that rebuild the body and are programmed to do so usually in random way, and base the rebuild on someone the particular Timelord has seen in his past. Certain Timelords like Romana are able to control this process in the nanites better than other Timelords to get a more desired result. Nanites explain a lot, for instance:

- Why you can only regenerate 12 times.
- The fact you can transfer them to another Timelord (River to the Doctor and vice-versa to fix her hand). - The fact you can get a new set (seen in Time of the Doctor)
- That visually regeneration has looked different sometimes or no effect at all (classic Doctors)
- The fact the Melody got a regeneration cycle with 2 human parent because she was conceived in the Tardis.
- Regeneration formula (programming) can be altered by the Sisterhood of Karn.

 

[starsuperion]

I sometimes think regeneration 'energy' are just advanced nanites that rebuild the body and are programmed to do so usually in random way, and base the rebuild on someone the particular Timelord has seen in his past. Certain Timelords like Romana are able to control this process in the nanites better than other Timelords to get a more desired result. Nanites explain a lot, for instance:

- Why you can only regenerate 12 times.
- The fact you can transfer them to another Timelord (River to the Doctor and vice-versa to fix her hand). - The fact you can get a new set (seen in Time of the Doctor)
- That visually regeneration has looked different sometimes or no effect at all (classic Doctors)
- The fact the Melody got a regeneration cycle with 2 human parent because she was conceived in the Tardis.
- Regeneration formula (programming) can be altered by the Sisterhood of Karn.

well to me it's more to do with time energy, and the reformatting of the cells on the stem level.. which is why the body shifts it's look and weight. To me, it's not Nanites that a Time Lord's cell have, it's temporal radiation energy derrived from the vortex, and incorporated into their cell structure and DNA.. only it's limited.. I sometimes think that Extra-Regen Cycles for Time lords above and beyond the original 12 come from Rassilon, and were siphoned off him while being kept in stasis in the Dark Tower.. since Rassilon can do it perpetually, it's a never ending well spring of Time lord Regen energy to tap and bestow with unaimous council consent of course.

 

[jaime]

I sometimes think regeneration 'energy' are just advanced nanites that rebuild the body and are programmed to do so usually in random way, and base the rebuild on someone the particular Timelord has seen in his past. Certain Timelords like Romana are able to control this process in the nanites better than other Timelords to get a more desired result. Nanites explain a lot, for instance:

- Why you can only regenerate 12 times.
- The fact you can transfer them to another Timelord (River to the Doctor and vice-versa to fix her hand). - The fact you can get a new set (seen in Time of the Doctor)
- That visually regeneration has looked different sometimes or no effect at all (classic Doctors)
- The fact the Melody got a regeneration cycle with 2 human parent because she was conceived in the Tardis.
- Regeneration formula (programming) can be altered by the Sisterhood of Karn.

They actually went with something very much like this in the first Gallifrey Chronicles book...in the Black Scrolls of Rassilon. I suppose when you have stellar manipulators like the Hand Of Omega, fiddling with the atoms in the body is much the same. It was in the Black Scrolls of Rassilon.
I used to like part of the explanation being that you basically go nuts with all the multiple personalities in your head, with thirteen being the limit, so a sort of termination was built in to prevent immortal psychotics spreading throughout time and space.

 

[The Wormhole]

I got to thinking about this when I saw that clip from "Hell Bent" when the Doctor asks the General what regeneration he's on, and the General says "Tenth." Does this mean that, at that time, the General is currently on his 10th self, or that he's regenerated 10 times (which would mean it's the 11th General)?

TARDIS Index Files (the Doctor Who Wiki) goes with the idea the male General is the Eleventh General, making the black woman he regenerates into the Twelfth.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_General

 

[jaime]

TARDIS Index Files (the Doctor Who Wiki) goes with the idea the male General is the Eleventh General, making the black woman he regenerates into the Twelfth.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_General

I wonder if the General is the new version of the Castellan

 

[Timewalker]

I used to like part of the explanation being that you basically go nuts with all the multiple personalities in your head, with thirteen being the limit, so a sort of termination was built in to prevent immortal psychotics spreading throughout time and space.

This is how the Fifth Doctor started out - he was confused and rambling, talking to companions he'd left behind several regenerations before. At one point he thought he was the Second Doctor and Adric was Jamie.

 

[thribs]

That’s the medical condition the Eleven has. His past iterations don’t leave when he regenerates so he has all these personalities in his head and is constantly talking to himself. I think he was supposed to be the Doctor’s version of the Joker.