I would love to go for a ride on Valen's Gonads!
Wait, what?!
(I've been drinking again.)
A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)
- Thread starter TheGodBen
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Wait, what?!
(I've been drinking again.)
Wow, I don't even remember posting that.
Well, my internet connection is back, so it's time for me to get back to pounding that grindstone.
The Summoning (***½)
Whatever happened to Mr Garibaldi? Well, he was held down by cellophane and that made him very grumpy. I know how he feels, a similar thing once happened to me after a party, he should count himself lucky that he doesn't have the name "Martin" tattooed on his buttocks.
Meanwhile...
Try as hard as he might, Cartagia can't seem to get G'Kar to scream. I have the same trouble with women. In the end Londo has a talk with G'Kar and gets him to give a sympathy scream so that Cartagia will feel better about himself. Once again, sympathy screams are something I'm familiar with. This episode sums up my life quite well, especially the whip part.
Meanwhile...
Ron Moorcus embarrassingly reveals to Ivanova that he has never *nudge nudge wink wink say no more* in the hope that she'll take pity on him and turn him into a real man, perhaps with a sympathy scream or two thrown in. It's like JMS has seen my whole life and has turned it into a science fiction series.
Meanwhile...
Lorien has a big spaceship and he takes Sheridan back to Babylon 5 just in time for Sheridan to make a heroic speech and rally all the species into making a final attack that will destroy the Shadows forever. Yay, genocide!
Oh wait, the Vorlons are now killing everyone? Now they're baddies too? What the hell is happening in this show?!
Sheridan, Ivanova, Garibaldi, Dr Franklin, Delenn, Lennier, Londo, Vir, G'Kar, Zack, Lyta, Ron... hey, that's everyone! Finally, a complete set.
Well, my internet connection is back, so it's time for me to get back to pounding that grindstone.
The Summoning (***½)
Whatever happened to Mr Garibaldi? Well, he was held down by cellophane and that made him very grumpy. I know how he feels, a similar thing once happened to me after a party, he should count himself lucky that he doesn't have the name "Martin" tattooed on his buttocks.
Meanwhile...
Try as hard as he might, Cartagia can't seem to get G'Kar to scream. I have the same trouble with women. In the end Londo has a talk with G'Kar and gets him to give a sympathy scream so that Cartagia will feel better about himself. Once again, sympathy screams are something I'm familiar with. This episode sums up my life quite well, especially the whip part.
Meanwhile...
Ron Moorcus embarrassingly reveals to Ivanova that he has never *nudge nudge wink wink say no more* in the hope that she'll take pity on him and turn him into a real man, perhaps with a sympathy scream or two thrown in. It's like JMS has seen my whole life and has turned it into a science fiction series.
Meanwhile...
Lorien has a big spaceship and he takes Sheridan back to Babylon 5 just in time for Sheridan to make a heroic speech and rally all the species into making a final attack that will destroy the Shadows forever. Yay, genocide!
Oh wait, the Vorlons are now killing everyone? Now they're baddies too? What the hell is happening in this show?!Sheridan, Ivanova, Garibaldi, Dr Franklin, Delenn, Lennier, Londo, Vir, G'Kar, Zack, Lyta, Ron... hey, that's everyone!
Finally, a complete set.
Oh wait, the Vorlons are now killing everyone? Now they're baddies too?
The Vorlons didn't suddenly become evil. They're pursuing the same goals they always did. They just decided to change strategy. And this new strategy means that "we" are screwed.
(And do I need to remind you that the Vorlons are the same race who send Jack the Ripper to have Delenn and Sheridan tortured back in Season 2?)
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Yeah, I believe "The Summoning" was the first and only episode in which the entire credited cast made an appearance.
Oh wait, the Vorlons are now killing everyone? Now they're baddies too?
The Vorlons didn't suddenly become evil. They're pursuing the same goals they always did. They just decided to change strategy. And this new strategy means that "we" are screwed.
(And do I need to remind you that the Vorlons are the same race who send Jack the Ripper to have Delenn and Sheridan tortured back in Season 2?)
There is a great deal of foreshadowing of this in earlier seasons, it's just hard to see. There is a conversation between Catherine Sakai anf G'Kar about the First Ones, in which the relationship between the young races and the First Ones is compared to the relationship between humans and ants.
Then there is the conversation between Ivonava and the "Zog" guy. Remember how he went ballistic when the Vorlons were mentioned? Think that he might have good reasons for not liking them?
Also remember what the Shadows' representatives said about the Vorlons, how they wanted to control the evolution of the Young Races.
And remember Deathwalker, how the Vorlons casually destroyed an anti-aging formula that would have saved countless lives (don't let Deathwalker's megalomaniacal prattle fool you, it is inevitable that the necessary chemicals would be cultured or synthesized).
Also from Deathwalker, remember that the Dilgar's star blew up for no apparent reason. Supernovas don't just happen (in spite of what JJ Abrams would have us believe). Something caused it. There is a very short list of races with that kind of technology who'd actually give a crap, two in fact. One of those two races was in hibernation at the time.
So if you read between the lines the Vorlons had already committed genocide at least once and condemned countless people to death by old age in the first season. The Zog guys think that the Vorlons are assholes (and they'd know). And the Shadows spelled it out most clearly.
The Vorlons want to micromanage the development of the young races. Those who can't be controlled have to be removed, like weeding a garden. They have good reasons for this, but from the perspective of the races they manipulate or exterminate it is hardly benevolent.
Not that the Shadows are any better. They also want to direct the evolution of the Young Races, they're just less methodical about it.
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I'm afraid I have to call BS on that point. She didn't develop the syrum until AFTER the Dilgar War and if memory serves the whole point behind the Dilgar invasion of the None-Aligned sectors was precisely because they knew their star was heading for a supernova and were making a desperate grab for territory. When they were beaten back they were essentially stuck in their system when it blew.
I'd say it's stretching it a little too far to claim the Vorlons were behind it. It's a big galaxy out there and not everything has some mysterious link to the First Ones.
What I do wonder about the repetitious conflicts is why are the Minbair the "oldest" of the younger races. If this has been going on for some 10,000 years as Delenn said way back in season 2 and the Minbari were new to interstellar travel "only" 1000 years then who where they messing about for the other 9000 years? Based on that I wouldn't be surprised if between them they've entierly already wiped out a few batches of developing races before now.
That or the recent "galactic civilisation" level of race interaction was only possible recently because of the jumpgates left lying around by whomever built them (I have my suspicions there too.) Where as before the "younger races" were much more isolated and they rarely develop jump drives on their own, if at all.
I never suggested that the immortality serum would be a motivation for the Vorlons to commit genocide, the fact that the Dilgar were (mostly) grade-A assholes who had nothing but contempt for each living beings, even members of their own species, is enough. The Dilgar were pretty much anathema to the Vorlons' concept of order.
The problem is that you either have to assume that the EA government at the time (which was a positive and optimistic government dominated by modern Western values, for the most part) willfully committed genocide, or you have to assume they didn't know. The buildup to a natural supernova is extremely obvious. there is no way they couldn't have known.
Supplementary material spells out that it was impossible for the Dilgar's star to go supernova according to all known laws of physics. The EA never considered the possibility because it wasn't possible. If they had known they would have done their best to try to evacuate, instead of blocking the system and occupying the planet. Nothing states Vorlon involvement outright and it could have been some bizarre fluke of nature, but that's doubtful.
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So why didn't they wipe out the Centauri too? Or the Narn for that matter as both governments did their fair share of annexation, oppression and mass murder. No, this argument doesn't hold any weight at all. Until this point, the Vorlons have always worked in the background and IFthey wanted to destroy Omelos, they have much more direct and efficient means at their disposal than setting off supernovas.
Uh, no the EA government at the time were opportunistic expansionists. They took what they saw as a way in increase their power and influence by tipping the balance in the League favour and driving out a race everyone hated. They could care less if the Dilgar were wiped out. Remember this is B5 not Star Trek and the Earth Alliance is NOT the Federation. They don't have a prime directive or some hight faluting respect for life and they're not above muscling in and colonising some bronze tech world if it suits them.
I wouldn't put too much stock in the RPG materials. Licenced and approved by JMS isn't the same as canon. The fact is most of that material was done with very little oversight and to be honest was of a very poor quality...but that's a whole other can of spoo.
As for the supernova, there's no reason to think it wasn't natural and no reason to believe the Vorlons had ANY involvement. The Dilgar saw their home was doomed, chose to secure a new one by conquest. It backfired, they all died "good riddance to them" says the galaxy and there was much celebration. Also keep in mind that a star goes "boom" here in the milky-way galaxy about once every fifty or so years. Odds are, soon or later one of them is going to have a life baring planet in orbit, so it's hardly beyond the bounds of probability and much more likely than the alternatives.
True....except....
We know Sol shouldn't have gone nova nearly so soon as it did. JMS hinted that was the result of active intervention; and nothing terribly advanced, just playing around with jump-drive tech inside the star. So if it could happen then, why not a million years earlier? It doesn't even have to be the Vorlons who did it.
Well I didn't forget about that but I also didn't want to get into a spoiler tag conversation if I could avoid it. Still...
...for one thing a nova isn't the same as a supernova. While both are very energetic a supernova is generally several orders of magnitude more powerful. Hence the name. So it'd take a hell of a lot more to get a star to go off like that.
Secondly, whoever is behind that is going after a race that is on par with what the Vorlons once were. That's what it takes just to scare these buggers off, it's not like a planet killer would phase them. Hell, they blew up their first death cloud over a million years prior! Either way it's a totally different scenario.
I suppose what I'm getting at is that while a race like the Vorlons could induce a supernova, they wouldn't do it just to wipe out the Dilgar. As I said before, if they wanted them gone there are easier ways to take them out than to go about blowing up a sun. Ants and Gods remember? Doing it that way is like using a nuke to open a can of beans. It's overkill, even for them.
Yes, I know this is the same race that almost destroyed Centauri Prime just to kill one person, but that was the exception. They weren't acting in a typical fashion. Even the Shadows, the ones that knew them best didn't think they'd hit a major world, not even to get at them.
On top of all that, I'm not at all convinced that the Vorlons would wipe them out like that. Kill Deathwalker and her serum, sure. But a whole planet just for one "little" invasion? No way. This is just one of those theories that to me, borders on apophenia.
Secondly, whoever is behind that is going after a race that is on par with what the Vorlons once were. That's what it takes just to scare these buggers off, it's not like a planet killer would phase them. Hell, they blew up their first death cloud over a million years prior! Either way it's a totally different scenario.
I suppose what I'm getting at is that while a race like the Vorlons could induce a supernova, they wouldn't do it just to wipe out the Dilgar. As I said before, if they wanted them gone there are easier ways to take them out than to go about blowing up a sun. Ants and Gods remember? Doing it that way is like using a nuke to open a can of beans. It's overkill, even for them.
Yes, I know this is the same race that almost destroyed Centauri Prime just to kill one person, but that was the exception. They weren't acting in a typical fashion. Even the Shadows, the ones that knew them best didn't think they'd hit a major world, not even to get at them.
On top of all that, I'm not at all convinced that the Vorlons would wipe them out like that. Kill Deathwalker and her serum, sure. But a whole planet just for one "little" invasion? No way. This is just one of those theories that to me, borders on apophenia.
"Do you know what the last Dilgar said right before he died?"
Thanks, it's a picture of me from a few years ago.
It was one of the few times my face wasn't scared and bloody.Falling Toward Apotheosis (***½)
Well, we're boned. The Vorlons have built a planet-busting machine that's decidedly not spherical and they're blowing up the galaxy. Neat. So, in order for Sheridan to come up with an ingenious plan to stop them he has to kill Kosh 2.0 with electricity, then some Reckoning-style light-show stuff happens and Kosh 2.0's ship gets blowed up real good. I'm really not sure what happened there, but I'm guessing Kosh 2.0 is now dead.
Meanwhile, Cartagia is quite mad and is willing to doom his people in order to become a god. It's like Jimmy Carter all over again. So some stuff happens and G'Kar loses an eye, which is just typical.
Oh, and Garibaldi is still grumpy. Someone needs a hug.
I'm liking the arc-structure. Will the show be like this all season or will it settle back down to normal after a few episodes?
It remains more serialized than most shows through the whole season, but not always quite as much as these first few.
Yep. What they did was draw Kosh 2 into the open by cracking open his encounter suit. They (may or may not have) softened him up with the security team shooting the shit out of him, but what finally got him was when he attacked Sheridan, the "piece" of Kosh 1 that was inside of him came out, dragged Kosh 2 out to his ship, and then blew them all up.
The electricity was to distract him so that he wouldn't have time to concentrate on any Vorlon tricks; with all the voltage going through him as well as hundreds of PPG blasts he couldn't defend himself as well as he might have so the piece of Kosh 1.0 in Sheridan was able to fight.
That's what the Vorlons really look like.
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