A James Bond Fan Reviews the Franchise
- Thread starter Admiral Shran
- Start date
One good thing about the later Brosnans was Colin Salmon as Chief of Staff Robinson. He didn't do that much, but I thought he did a good job with what he had. Brosnan even suggested that Salmon be cast as his replacement, I believe.
CaptainDemotion, slight correction, the rising out of water in a bikini scene was originated by Ursula Andress in "Dr.No", not Honor Blackman.
CaptainDemotion, slight correction, the rising out of water in a bikini scene was originated by Ursula Andress in "Dr.No", not Honor Blackman.
But worst of all is M. She abandons him to torture in North Korea, flat out tells him that if it were up to her he would still be there and refuses to believe him over the Americans. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I simply do not get this whole antagonistic relationship between these two. For decades it was established that M had a deep respect for and faith in Bond and would always rely on his judgment. Yet ever since Judi Dench took over the role, M has had to constantly relearn the lesson that Bond is MI6's best and most reliable agent. Also, she abandons him to torture and thinks nothing of it after he goes out of his way to save her life in Istanbul?
I've got to disagree with you about Judi Dench's M. I think the antagonistic approach her character has brings much more depth to the role. I mean, Bernard Lee was great and all, but the character was pretty flat. Off the top of my head, I'd find it pretty tough to actually say much about his personality traits.
.
I'm inclined to agreed. It's a different dynamic, but arguably a more dramatic one. Previous versions of "M" were really just there to provide exposition and look exasperated on occasion. Densch (who is great in most anything) has made "M" an actual character and her scenes with the various Bonds really stand out.
It was very shrewd of them to keep her even after rebooting the series with Craig. Why throw out something that's working so well?
Sadly, she's right; Bond has been utterly misogynistic, and as mentioned in the novels (the Benson ones), acted in a way with his personal secretaries so much so that he had to be given a male one.M - Before you say it, I don't have a problem with M being a woman. My problem is that she is so antagonistic to Bond, really for no reason. What was the point? It destroys the whole Bond/M relationship that has been established. It's one thing to push Bond hard, like M has always done. It's another to act like "I don't care if you always get the job done. I don't like you because you're a misogynist." When has Bond ever shown a hatred of women?And even though she dislikes being thought of as an accountant, that's exactly what she appears to be.
But how has he been misogynistic - meaning that he hates women? In the novels this may be the case. I don't know since I've never read them. However, it seems clear to me that in the movies he doesn't hate women, he just enjoys having casual sex with them.
But she obviously still does have that puppy-love thing for Bond, as seen at the end of Die Another Day. They just decided to hide it under a veneer of ridicule toward him. I don't get that at all.
And even if she has matured and developed, what has she matured into? A woman who scorns the man she loves and treats him with contempt? Not very appealing if you ask me.
It's not that it's too fanciful. Trust me, compared to the other gadgets, it's downright ordinary. My problem was that it was just one more gadget added onto the heap.
I'm all for a different dynamic between Bond and a new M, but the execution really leaves something to be desired. It really seems to me that the whole dynamic is based on the fact M, not Bond, is the sexist and that she constantly has to relearn the same lesson over and over again.
If they wanted antagonism between the two, they should have given us a good reason for it - not just the fact that M doesn't like that he's a man who enjoys sex.
I think it goes deeper than that, though. M clearly respects Bond's abilities, but she's uncomfortable with the fact that he's a loose cannon. Her job is to run MI6 so that it A) does its job for the British government, and B) doesn't cause a major diplomatic fuck-up in the process. And Bond, for all his strengths, doesn't exactly have a light touch—this is a man that (in the era of the female M alone) shot up a Soviet chemical facility; got into an open battle with North Korean troops; and went guns-blazing into an embassy in pursuit of a minor terrorist. You can pretty easily see where the distrust comes from.
Bond shot up the chemical factory pre Dench's M, Goldeneye's pre-title sequence was meant to be years before but its implied that Dench is fairly new in post.
I like Dench as M, and though I didn't think she should have carried on when Craig was cast I do at least like the fact that her M and the relationship between M and Bond is subtly different.
I can't believe you can have a problem with Moneypenny? Samantha Bond was fantastic for me (only ruined slightly by the holodeck stuff at the end) and her repartee with Brosnan was fantastic, as great as Lois was their relationship always seemed more one way.
Anyhoo. Die Another Day...
I like this film, so sue me! After the bland disappointment that was TWINE the one thing this film can't be accused of is being boring! Ok so it gets progressively worse as it goes along but still, for me the good stuff outweighs the bad.
I think firstly and foremost you have to place this film in context. The 20th film, something of a milestone and they tried to incorporate that into it. Rightly or wrongly. For me it works, and there are a lot of lovely touches and it is a bit of a valentine to the fans (in a good way).
The pre title sequence is very good, and I love Moon's anger therapist. Like the titles that actually propel the story along (although Madonna's tune-if you can call it that-ain't great) then Bond is released, traded for Zao (who's a great henchman) the scene where Bond things he's going to be shot is very nicely done.
I don't think Bond is treated that badly by MI6 after his release. M's actions in stepping around the glass are testimony to the fact that she still trusts him, but the fact remains that information was leaking out and Bond was the likely source.
Bond's Zen like escape is a little hard to swallow, but I guess he did have a lot of time on his hands in North Korea. I just love the scene where he walks, sopping wet, into the yacht club while the Bond music plays, and I love that now 007 has to rely on Chinese intelligence to get him into Cuba.
Cuba is nicely done on the whole, especially Bond waking the sleeper.
Soon we get our first misstep. Jinx. Sigh. As I said further up I just don't get it about Berry, don't find her attractive, don't think she's a great actress, and she's afforded too much prominence in this film. The seduction scene between the two is really cringe worthy.
Bond infiltrating the clinic is interesting, and Jinx isn't too bad here.
Love the stuff where Bond returns to London and we get to meet Gustav Graves. I have to say right now that I thought Tony Stephens(Stevens?) was just brilliant. The sneering, the barely controlled rage, flipping from cold hard rage to humour. Best Bond villain since 006 for me and hasn't been bettered since.
Quick shout out as well to Rosamund Pike. She's absolutely gorgeous, and having seen her in several things since I have to say a better actress than she appears here.
The sword fight is great, utterly brutal and exceptionally well choreographed and, best of all for a franchise that’d been running 40 years, it gave us something we really hadn’t seen before.
Minus points for Madonna’s cameo however…
Love the scenes between Bond and M, Bond and Q in the abandoned station. “An abandoned station for abandoned agents.” I think Cleese is very good here and there’s a great exchange between the two.
“You’re cleverer than you look.”
“Better than looking cleverer than I am.”
The holodeck is just really, really bad though. And I do wonder if it wasn’t inserted just so we could have the gag with Moneypenny at the end.
Which brings us onto the car…the invisible car…ok so it’s hard to swallow, but frankly I’ve lost count of the number of articles I’ve read since then that talk about the technology being worked on to do this. It’s a daft notion but not one that ruins the film.
Ice palace. Great! Love all the scenes here, especially Moon/Graves’ reveal. Love as well how useless Jinx is! America’s top agent? I think not!
I like Bond’s escape in the jet car, especially Graves’ reaction to Bond beating his time.
The cg in the surfing bit is really badly done. I seem to recall that the time for post production wasn’t great, which doesn’t excuse the poor work and reliance on cg. Ironically though I once had someone say they liked the cg of the Aston rolling in Casino Royale! I had to point out that they really rolled the car! That said the bit where he appears out of the surf to the Bond music gets me every time (and really is it any worse than Roger Moore ‘skiing’ in front of a back screen projection of snow?)
Bond rescues Jinx (unfortunately) and it’s from here on in that I really lose it. The finale on the plane is just poor. People can moan all they like about the invisible car but for me the robot suit is so much worse, and robs the scene of any drama or tension. Plus I really wanted Miranda to kill Jinx (I adore her outfit here by the way!)
I suppose the only good thing one can say about the holodeck ending is that at least it gives us a Bond/Moneypenny scene (sort of) plus it gives us Bond and Moneypenny actually kissing (again, sort of).
Not a great film, and one that gets progressively worse as it goes along. Not a classic but not a terrible film and nowhere near deserving of the ire it gets.
Oh yeah, and I really wanted someone to punch Michael Madsen…
I like Dench as M, and though I didn't think she should have carried on when Craig was cast I do at least like the fact that her M and the relationship between M and Bond is subtly different.
I can't believe you can have a problem with Moneypenny? Samantha Bond was fantastic for me (only ruined slightly by the holodeck stuff at the end) and her repartee with Brosnan was fantastic, as great as Lois was their relationship always seemed more one way.
Anyhoo. Die Another Day...
I like this film, so sue me! After the bland disappointment that was TWINE the one thing this film can't be accused of is being boring! Ok so it gets progressively worse as it goes along but still, for me the good stuff outweighs the bad.
I think firstly and foremost you have to place this film in context. The 20th film, something of a milestone and they tried to incorporate that into it. Rightly or wrongly. For me it works, and there are a lot of lovely touches and it is a bit of a valentine to the fans (in a good way).
The pre title sequence is very good, and I love Moon's anger therapist. Like the titles that actually propel the story along (although Madonna's tune-if you can call it that-ain't great) then Bond is released, traded for Zao (who's a great henchman) the scene where Bond things he's going to be shot is very nicely done.
I don't think Bond is treated that badly by MI6 after his release. M's actions in stepping around the glass are testimony to the fact that she still trusts him, but the fact remains that information was leaking out and Bond was the likely source.
Bond's Zen like escape is a little hard to swallow, but I guess he did have a lot of time on his hands in North Korea. I just love the scene where he walks, sopping wet, into the yacht club while the Bond music plays, and I love that now 007 has to rely on Chinese intelligence to get him into Cuba.
Cuba is nicely done on the whole, especially Bond waking the sleeper.
Soon we get our first misstep. Jinx. Sigh. As I said further up I just don't get it about Berry, don't find her attractive, don't think she's a great actress, and she's afforded too much prominence in this film. The seduction scene between the two is really cringe worthy.
Bond infiltrating the clinic is interesting, and Jinx isn't too bad here.
Love the stuff where Bond returns to London and we get to meet Gustav Graves. I have to say right now that I thought Tony Stephens(Stevens?) was just brilliant. The sneering, the barely controlled rage, flipping from cold hard rage to humour. Best Bond villain since 006 for me and hasn't been bettered since.
Quick shout out as well to Rosamund Pike. She's absolutely gorgeous, and having seen her in several things since I have to say a better actress than she appears here.
The sword fight is great, utterly brutal and exceptionally well choreographed and, best of all for a franchise that’d been running 40 years, it gave us something we really hadn’t seen before.
Minus points for Madonna’s cameo however…
Love the scenes between Bond and M, Bond and Q in the abandoned station. “An abandoned station for abandoned agents.” I think Cleese is very good here and there’s a great exchange between the two.
“You’re cleverer than you look.”
“Better than looking cleverer than I am.”
The holodeck is just really, really bad though. And I do wonder if it wasn’t inserted just so we could have the gag with Moneypenny at the end.
Which brings us onto the car…the invisible car…ok so it’s hard to swallow, but frankly I’ve lost count of the number of articles I’ve read since then that talk about the technology being worked on to do this. It’s a daft notion but not one that ruins the film.
Ice palace. Great! Love all the scenes here, especially Moon/Graves’ reveal. Love as well how useless Jinx is! America’s top agent? I think not!
I like Bond’s escape in the jet car, especially Graves’ reaction to Bond beating his time.
The cg in the surfing bit is really badly done. I seem to recall that the time for post production wasn’t great, which doesn’t excuse the poor work and reliance on cg. Ironically though I once had someone say they liked the cg of the Aston rolling in Casino Royale! I had to point out that they really rolled the car! That said the bit where he appears out of the surf to the Bond music gets me every time (and really is it any worse than Roger Moore ‘skiing’ in front of a back screen projection of snow?)
Bond rescues Jinx (unfortunately) and it’s from here on in that I really lose it. The finale on the plane is just poor. People can moan all they like about the invisible car but for me the robot suit is so much worse, and robs the scene of any drama or tension. Plus I really wanted Miranda to kill Jinx (I adore her outfit here by the way!)
I suppose the only good thing one can say about the holodeck ending is that at least it gives us a Bond/Moneypenny scene (sort of) plus it gives us Bond and Moneypenny actually kissing (again, sort of).
Not a great film, and one that gets progressively worse as it goes along. Not a classic but not a terrible film and nowhere near deserving of the ire it gets.
Oh yeah, and I really wanted someone to punch Michael Madsen…
Yes and IIRC Salmon would read the part of 007 opposite other actors and actresses auditioning for roles.
D'oh!!!! My bad!
Thanks for the correction.
More Goose - Well, to each their own. I don't have a problem with anybody liking DAD for their own reasons, just as with Moonraker. I just can't stand it, easily my least favorite.
However....
At least we can agree on that.
However....
At least we can agree on that.
Oh I can see why people don't like it, I just think there's a lot worse in the franchise. Irrespective of its merits (or lack of) it did do exceptionally good business, so it must have been a bit of a gamble for the producers to ditch Brosnan and go for a fresh start. Obviously there is precedent in that they've tended to go back to basics after a ridiculous film, but they at least kept the same actor between Moonraker/FYEO!
I always thought Brosnan got treated badly over the whole thing. At the end of the day he's still wealthy and succesful and probably not hugely cut up over the thing, I just think they could have handled it better.
I still would have liked to see a version of Casino Royale featuring Brosnan as Bond but on his last mission rather than his first. That said I'm not sure I'd have wanted Tarantino to direct it!
Wow, I can't believe there's only two more films to go now!
I always thought Brosnan got treated badly over the whole thing. At the end of the day he's still wealthy and succesful and probably not hugely cut up over the thing, I just think they could have handled it better.
I still would have liked to see a version of Casino Royale featuring Brosnan as Bond but on his last mission rather than his first. That said I'm not sure I'd have wanted Tarantino to direct it!
Wow, I can't believe there's only two more films to go now!
That's true, I didn't think of that. Replace it with "wiping out half the St. Petersburg police and destroying historic buildings and monuments with a stolen tank," then.
Last edited:
Interesting note, Sean Bean did the same with actresses auditioning for The Living Daylights.
I always wondered what a Bond played by Sean Bean would have been like...
If you ever get the chance read John Pearson's James Bond, An Unofficial Biography. It pieces together all the original books in a very credible way and depicting Bond's career, his relationship with M, Moneypenny, his parents and family and the women in his life. And it's all consistent with what's in the books.
- Bond's father is Scots and his mother Swiss. Both parents die in a tragic mountain climbing accident and Bond was then raised by his aunt, one of his father's sisters. Bond's father was something of a Puritan and could be rather strict while his mother was somewhat carefree and found it hard to settle down. And she sometimes had affairs because her husband was often away. The family traveled and moved a lot because Bond's father was a Royal Engineer.
- Bond served in the Royal Navy when young then was drawn into Intelligence and counter espionage. he went back into the navy and then drawn back permanently into intelligence and MI6 and specifically the Double-O Section.
- Bond adored his mother, but found it difficult to trust her because of her occasional unfaithfulness. Bond really is a romantic at heart, but he usually hides it because he doesn't want to look weak. Strong emotions put him on shaky ground and thus he feels more in control with casual affairs with romantic overtones. In the books he has not been averse to affairs with married women as long as the women keep their husbands happy.
- At heart Bond fantasizes of a more normal life with one woman and perhaps a family yet he also knows that such an existence could likely get boring to a man such as himself who feels most alive when dealing with danger. He likes the adrenalin rush.
- Bond doesn't hate women. He likes women very much, but he's wary of serious emotional entanglements and thus on some level he doesn't really trust women, in general.
- M understands Bond to an extent and knows that Bond is at his best when pushed. M is also of the old school that is very spare and curt with expressions of appreciation and compliments. Bond can privately get very cross with M yet he really respects him and considers M an exceptional leader with a razor sharp mind. This is pretty much how M was portrayed in the films, until Judi Dench. Dench is more like the literary M in the Daniel Craig films.
- Bond is fond of Moneypenny, but in reality she would probably bore him to tears if they were ever involved. He's aware of her feelings and flirts with her, but he doesn't have romantic feelings for her.
- There is no Q in the books.
- Bond's father is Scots and his mother Swiss. Both parents die in a tragic mountain climbing accident and Bond was then raised by his aunt, one of his father's sisters. Bond's father was something of a Puritan and could be rather strict while his mother was somewhat carefree and found it hard to settle down. And she sometimes had affairs because her husband was often away. The family traveled and moved a lot because Bond's father was a Royal Engineer.
- Bond served in the Royal Navy when young then was drawn into Intelligence and counter espionage. he went back into the navy and then drawn back permanently into intelligence and MI6 and specifically the Double-O Section.
- Bond adored his mother, but found it difficult to trust her because of her occasional unfaithfulness. Bond really is a romantic at heart, but he usually hides it because he doesn't want to look weak. Strong emotions put him on shaky ground and thus he feels more in control with casual affairs with romantic overtones. In the books he has not been averse to affairs with married women as long as the women keep their husbands happy.
- At heart Bond fantasizes of a more normal life with one woman and perhaps a family yet he also knows that such an existence could likely get boring to a man such as himself who feels most alive when dealing with danger. He likes the adrenalin rush.
- Bond doesn't hate women. He likes women very much, but he's wary of serious emotional entanglements and thus on some level he doesn't really trust women, in general.
- M understands Bond to an extent and knows that Bond is at his best when pushed. M is also of the old school that is very spare and curt with expressions of appreciation and compliments. Bond can privately get very cross with M yet he really respects him and considers M an exceptional leader with a razor sharp mind. This is pretty much how M was portrayed in the films, until Judi Dench. Dench is more like the literary M in the Daniel Craig films.
- Bond is fond of Moneypenny, but in reality she would probably bore him to tears if they were ever involved. He's aware of her feelings and flirts with her, but he doesn't have romantic feelings for her.
- There is no Q in the books.
That's true, I didn't think of that. Replace it with "wiping out half the St. Petersburg police and destroying historic buildings and monuments with a stolen tank," then.
Yeah that works too
I think he'd have had to keep the 006 accent, but I think he could have been very good
From what I read, Fleming originally opposed the choice of Sean Connery, as he felt he was too unrefined for the role. Afterwards, he admitted he was wrong and liked Connery as Bond so much that he wrote Bond having a half-Scottish background.
Moore was considered for Bond, but was thought too much a pretty boy at the time. Ironically, although Connery wouldn't have been Fleming's first choice, Connery is who I see whenever I read Fleming's novels.
Actually, if I recall correctly, Fleming initially had someone like David Niven in mind for Bond. And I recall reading somewhere that Fleming thought of Hoagy Carmichael when he envisioned Bond.
Hoagy Carmichael, Fleming's initial idea of Bond.
Actually, if I recall correctly, Fleming initially had someone like David Niven in mind for Bond. And I recall reading somewhere that Fleming thought of Hoagy Carmichael when he envisioned Bond.
Hoagy Carmichael, Fleming's initial idea of Bond.
I have to disagree. You also have to consider the era in which Fleming conceived Bond, the late '40s and early '50s. The idea of masculinity was somewhat different than today and "real men" generally had a more sophisticated air than today. Hence Fleming thinking of someone like Hoagy Carmichael. Note, though, that Fleming described Bond with a scar on his cheek that supposedly lent the character an added air of edge and danger.
Strangely, whatever Fleming thought initially, his lierary description nails the young Connery to a T.
Strangely, whatever Fleming thought initially, his lierary description nails the young Connery to a T.
Hoagy Carmichael, Fleming's initial idea of Bond.
I can definitely see it, as I know that what most people thought of as "a man's man" back then was different from what most people think it is today.
I mean, it was even different as late as the 1970s - when Steve McQueen, Paul Neuman, and Robert Redford were considered the top macho guys. Not exactly what a lot of people today think of as "real men's men."
