8X06 "The Caretaker" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!

[sttngfan1701d]

I think the Doctor is always a little jealous when people come between him and his companion (except in the case of Rory...he was relieved). It's because he wants to be the center of attention.

With Clara, there were feelings on both sides. The end of Nightmare in Silver confirmed his attraction to her. She always liked him. When they had that "I'm not your boyfriend"/"I never said you were!"/"I never said it was your mistake" exchange, it was telling.

He also has always felt very protective of her. Part of why the Danny Pink thing and him being "good enough for her" came up.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Wasn't he doing PE with the students in his first appearance? Not that keeps him from being a math, er maths, teacher but he was teaching PE, no?

Unofficial British version of ROTC.

Not sure what the point was unless there was a PE credit?

Probably just marching for fat kids.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I think the Doctor is always a little jealous when people come between him and his companion (except in the case of Rory...he was relieved). It's because he wants to be the center of attention.

This goes back all the way to #3 who was sad when Jo left to get married to the activist.

 

[Squiggy]

If he was lighter in color, he might be called the first mulatto president.

Not by anyone born after 1960.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I think the Doctor is always a little jealous when people come between him and his companion (except in the case of Rory...he was relieved). It's because he wants to be the center of attention.

The Doctor wasn't always jealous of his companions developing relationships with other people. In the Classic Doctor Who, and mentioned in the New Doctor Who, the Doctor doesn't like goodbyes. The first companion to leave, Susan, was given a sweet and loving speech in which he gave his blessing for her romance with David. The next two companions, Ian and Barbara, he had to be convinced by Vicki to let them go home. He was reluctant to see them leave.

Personally, I dislike the direction that the franchise went in the new Doctor Who when the Doctor developed romantic feelings for his companions. For me, one of the best Doctor-companion relationship was that between Ace and the Seventh Doctor.

 

[Count Zero]

Well, even in classic Who there was the Third Doctor and Jo (someone already mentioned it). The way he acted in "The Green Death" was pretty obvious I felt.

 

[Brent]

Why does race always have to be injected into these things, when it has nothing to do with anything in the episode at all.

The black kid being told to move on? Who cares what color their skin was, the kid shoulda been in school.

Absolutely see nothing having to do with race between the Doctor and Danny at all either.

Really, sometimes people put stuff into things that just isn't there.

 

[Cyke101]

Why does race always have to be injected into these things, when it has nothing to do with anything in the episode at all.

The black kid being told to move on? Who cares what color their skin was, the kid shoulda been in school.

Absolutely see nothing having to do with race between the Doctor and Danny at all either.

Really, sometimes people put stuff into things that just isn't there.

Not saying there was any racism in the episode; I personally don't see it. But race is always injected into these things because people face racism all the time, from microaggressions to slurs and attacks. They don't have the luxury of ignoring or being immune to how they and/or their close ones get treated, especially by people in positions of authority, i.e. "driving while black." (Rhetorically speaking, this is also why the defense "I don't see race" is so meaningless. Clearly we can see a white person, a black person, Latino, etc. And each one has their own experience. Saying one doesn't see race implies that there's an attempt to invalidate those experiences.) And I imagine why the scene in question was brought up, at least for Americans, is because there's been an outbreak of media attention on police officers unfairly targeting minorities, to the point where the are protests, demonstrations, and civic action across the country. Not saying the writer accounted for that (nor should they be expected to), but that's the attitude in the US right now.

Oftentimes in entertainment as well, sometimes writers express racist thoughts without knowing of it, simply because of ingrained expectations. In many cop shows, for example, gang members and drug dealers are often minorities, though the writer doesn't intend them to be cast as such; it's just what the writer, casting director, and maybe more picture in their minds first. Racism is often insidious because it affects us whether we're aware of it or not.

 

[diankra]

Wasn't he doing PE with the students in his first appearance? Not that keeps him from being a math, er maths, teacher but he was teaching PE, no?

That scene doesn't make any sense to me: I was in the school CCF (Combined Cadet Corps/Force) back in the day, and it was all about drill and marching (and the occasional tiny interesting bit of engineering when they let you take a gun apart: I couldn't march at all, but could strip and rebuild a machine gun faster than any of the upright march-and-salute soldier-types).
Anyway, point is, you didn't do PE: they assumed you were doing that anyway (and thinking about it, none of the CCF teacher-officers were PE teachers - they were mainly historians and linguists. The latter makes sense because they'd got started on the languages back when they were teenagers, while in the forces in Europe at the end of World War 2).
So, it's 30 years on and things have changed and I don't think many schools have a CCF anymore (back then we had parents whose earliest memories were air-raid sirens and telling their parents that if Hitler invaded they'd tell him 'They're not in' so he'd go away - and yes, that is a real memory from my mum), and maybe it's Danny's unofficial version... except if he doesn't want people to know he used to be a soldier, which does seem to be a sort of point, why would he set up a Coal hill CCF?

 

[Nightowl1701]

I have to admit, I'm kind of surprised I like Courtney. Based on how she was set up I got the impression they were going to make her an annoying kid, but I liked her scenes with the Doctor and her reaction upon learning what the TARDIS actually is. Should be interesting next week when she goes on a trip in the TARDIS.

Yup. That's important, I think.

Spoiler: I don't doubt my guess at this point...

Means you're going to feel it just as hard as Clara when the Doctor gets Courtney killed next episode. That 'innocent life' vs. the human race is hers.

No. Correction.

When the Doctor makes Clara kill Courtney.

 

[intrinsical]

I don't know about modern UK but even here in Singapore, admittedly an ex-british colony, we still have student corps such as the Saint Johns Ambulance Brigade, National Police Cadet Corps as well as the Scouts. These student corps are still heavy into instilling discipline and responsibility through march drills and lots of physical activity.

 

[Klaus]

I liked it a lot, really digging Capaldi and the dynamic with Clara. And yes the robot was surprisingly lame, but I also agree that it really wasn't the point this time, the characters were. The bow tie factor was very funny.

...and I think the Doctor's attitude about soldiers is supposed to be surprising and seemingly inconsistent, and will be explained at some point as we go on. Danny is obviously the intro to that process [which reencountering UNIT will likely help with too]. As several have suggested, I think he's coming to grips with what he did as the War Doctor in a way that 10 and 11 never did, and is shell-shocked to some extent [9 seemed to have been trying, but we'll never know for sure].

Clara should have pointed out to Danny at the end that whilst she enjoys all the new experiences with the Doctor, she does keep coming back to him.

 

[Nightowl1701]

I don't think it's what he did in the Time War that's behind this attitude, actually. What I think we're supposed to be getting and we're not (and Moffat only has himself to blame for it going over our heads) is that Eleven spent damn near one thousand years being not only a soldier, but a freaking one-man army, in the War For Trenzalore. And by the last century or so he was indeed forced to be an officer by sheer old age, turning the citizens of Christmas into soldiers and bossing them around to carry out his plans.
We skipped over that whole chapter (no, that whole book) of the Doctor's life. If Nine was the post-Time War Doctor, and we saw how that affected him, it shouldn't be no surprise now how totally different the War For Trenzalore has made Twelve, esp. when it comes to war and all things associated with it - specifically soldiers.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

...and I think the Doctor's attitude about soldiers is supposed to be surprising and seemingly inconsistent, and will be explained at some point as we go on. Danny is obviously the intro to that process [which reencountering UNIT will likely help with too]. As several have suggested, I think he's coming to grips with what he did as the War Doctor in a way that 10 and 11 never did, and is shell-shocked to some extent [9 seemed to have been trying, but we'll never know for sure].

But "The Day of the Doctor" was supposed to absolve the Doctor of any PTSD/survivors guilt, The Doctor had because of the Time War. Saving Galifrey instead of burning it and finally reconciling with his War Doctor self.

It would make more sense for the Doctor be be shell shocked and suffering from the 800+ years he spent defending Trenzalore. That had to have taken a toll on hi psychologically.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Why does race always have to be injected into these things, when it has nothing to do with anything in the episode at all.

"Always"? "These things"?

Why can't people discuss, you know, their reactions to a story? Because you might be uncomfortable with discussion of race doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about.

In fact, because you are uncomfortable is probably good reason to talk about it.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I really liked this episode. (My grade: "I'm a Caretaker now. Look I've got a brush.") And, I think this is the best one so far, which is saying a lot. It shows the episodes are getting better!

It was interesting seeing The Doctor so openly jealous, and seeing Danny stick up for himself. (Previous companions like Mickey and Rory didn't). Clara, while she's interested in the adventures with The Doctor, clearly wants the romantic relationship with Danny....and it shows The Doctor doesn't really want to be in the 'friend zone;' an inconvenience he didn't really have much trouble with in regards to Rose and Amy.

So many times before in the franchise, companions also bowed to The Doctor's knowledge with very little questions, however Clara and Danny were able to hold their own in the midst of danger even though they are going up against alien creatures.

I liked that we saw various shades of black people in this episode. Various speaking parts with black people, including the very interesting Courtney. And, we saw black individuals with natural hair; something rarely seen in American media. (Yes, it was interesting to see Danny speak with the black parents, and Clara the white parents....but, that can be forgiven for that little blunder. DW has done a lot more than Trek lately in the racial aspect).

It can only get better.

I give it:

 

[Cutter John]

Why does race always have to be injected into these things, when it has nothing to do with anything in the episode at all.

The black kid being told to move on? Who cares what color their skin was, the kid shoulda been in school.

Absolutely see nothing having to do with race between the Doctor and Danny at all either.

Really, sometimes people put stuff into things that just isn't there.

Didn't bother me either. I just thought it a bit of an uncomfortable coincidence between Micky/Danny.

Are people really complaining about the street kids? Hell I'd say it was a step up . These sort of characters are usually young, white hooligan types.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

The Doctor's attitude to the military dates back to his childhood, according to "Listen". In that episode, he sought shelter in a barn so that other child wouldn't see him crying because he had learned he would be going to the army. He didn't want to go the army. Why? Unfortunately, like a photograph, we have a snapshot of a moment and don't know the before and the after (the context in which the moment is a part of). We don't even know who the woman and man were. It's frustrating not to have these answers. Hopefully, someday they will be answered. (Or not.)

The Doctor has been waging conflict against other people and groups since the First Doctor. It's not "The Daleks" where the Doctor changed; it's the largely forgotten serial "The Sensorites". From the book About Time: The Unauthorized Guide to Doctor Who, Volume 1, page 73:

So it's worth noticing that it's the first time the Doctor, rather than Ian or Barbara, is the instigator of much of the action. In fact, it's the first time the Doctor saves a planet not simply to get his Ship back but because it's the right thing to do.

So let's reiterate: this is quite possibly the most important Doctor Who story of all. The key scene comes in episode four, and most people miss it. Ian is cured of his illness: the nature of the "plaque" has been discovered, and the Doctor has done everything the First Elder requested of him. And yet, the Doctor decides to go and investigate the water supply. He isn't doing it out of idle curiosity, and he's aware that it might be dangerous, but he elects to go into a hazardous place and save a planet because he's good. It's at this precise point that Doctor Who as we understand it comes into existence.

The Doctor has killed many lifeforms in his lifetime, either directly or indirectly. The agent of a person is the person himself - so, when a companion kills under the orders of the Doctor, the Doctor is killing. This is the concept of agency. And, this was before he became the War Doctor. I am still attempting to understand why the Doctor didn't became the president of Gallifrey during this crisis. He was considered the president of Gallifrey up to the time of the Seventh Doctor, and, as president, he would have more power than a single individual waging war against the Daleks.

The latest episode was playing coy with its references. There was a reference to Barbara Wright, who was a female teacher at Coal Hill, and the fish people of the city of Atlantis from "The Underwater Menace".

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Although I am white, I was not immune to being pulled over for "suspicious driving" by a cop. Years ago, in Moraga (a town in CA), I was stopped by a local cop who demanded to know why I was driving at that time of night and what my business was in that town. As I am white, my treatment was less severe than what a black person would probably have experienced.

So, what you know and what you experience does influence how you view a program. We don't know if the two young males in the episode were "hooligans"; that is speculation based on what an authority figure tells us. People are more liable to believe what an authority figure tells them. And, in some instances, will blindly follow orders without questioning. We have seen this on many occasions in the franchise, for the good and for the bad.

I think this is one of the underlying messages of the episode - that a willingness to obey orders without questioning from an authority figure can have terrible consequences. As individuals, we need to know what the line is and ask ourselves, will we cross the line because an authority figure tells us to do so?

 

[Guy Gardener]

It was school hours and they were in school uniforms.

A lazy police man yells at them to go back to school, which is what we saw, but a good police man would drag them back to school and report the scallywags for truancy.