8X02 "Into the Dalek" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

[DS9Continuing]

I liked it at the time, but it's grown on me more with further thought.

When i first saw the trailer, I thought "Oh FFS, can we not give the Daleks a rest for a friggin' minute, please?" Three of the last four episodes have involved Daleks, and it's getting a bit much. But having actually seen the episode, I get it.

It makes sense that at a time when the Doctor is trying to define himself, to figure out whether he's a good or bad person, he comes across an example of his greatest enemy who is also trying to figure out whether he's good or bad. The Doctor even specifically said that he originally defined himself as "everything the Dalek is not" - what does that mean when even the Dalek is not what a Dalek is? It's the perfect vehicle to explore that idea.

Plus of course there's the fact that we have a back-to-basics thing going on here - an older, grouchy Doctor with two school teachers from Coal Hill as his companions, who encounter the Daleks in their second adventure as a way of defining themselves.

I'm fine with Danny Pink - it might seem unconnected, but it is very much connected thematically. He's a soldier who clearly had to do some horrible things and is wounded internally by them and not yet over them. He is the Doctor writ small; probably why Clara is attracted to him.

Yes, the episode was very reminiscent of Eccleston's Dalek episode, but in a good way. It's weird how there's this inverse relationship - one Dalek is somehow infinitely scarier than a whole fleet of Daleks. I would have liked it if they had at least said that the miniaturisation technology was a primitive version of the Teselecta's tech though. Otherwise this just feels like another reused idea.

Capaldi definitely had some good lines - "That's it, think positive," or something like that when Clara insists that she's not old. Again, it shows that this Doctor simply isn't concerned with little details like age or clothes or feelings.

What's with all the mixed relationships on the show? I don't have anything against them..

Just... no. If you didn't have a problem you wouldn't have seen the need to bring the topic up; it would have never occurred to you. Did you really think this question would get a good response here? Not every thought that enters your mind needs to be said out loud.

.

 

[Jax]

5.2 million watched episode two of the new series, Doctor Who: "Into the Dalek", a share of 24.7% of the total TV audience according to unofficial overnight viewing figures.

Doctor Who was the second highest rated programme of the night, which was won by the return of the talent show The X Factor on ITV, which had 9.3 million watching. Against the Doctor, The Chase: Celebrity Special had an audience of 4.2 million.

Doctor Who did not suffer any loss of viewers during the clash with the X Factor, with ratings stable throughout the episode

When the finals are out based on normal jumps and last week numbers ending up at 9.17 million, I'd expect around 7 million for the final audience. So far so good overall though I wonder how BBC will continue to line up the show now that SHIT Factor is back

 

[DWF]

There's also the matter of the Doctor choosing the face of someone he only saved because Donna guilted him into doing it.

That was some 1100 years ago for him though.

For him, yes, but maybe Missy still remembers watching him at Pompeii.

Even if she does and there's no evidence of that, it still doesn't mean he choose that face because Donna made him save the family in Fires Of Pomeii.

 

[Malformed]

Favorite Line–

Clara: "You're not my boss, you're one of my hobbies."

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Even if she does and there's no evidence of that, it still doesn't mean he choose that face because Donna made him save the family in Fires Of Pomeii.

I was implying she chose his face. So yes, it doesn't mean that.

 

[Mister Fandango]

Just... no. If you didn't have a problem you wouldn't have seen the need to bring the topic up; it would have never occurred to you. Did you really think this question would get a good response here? Not every thought that enters your mind needs to be said out loud.

Why are you taking it as if it were some kind of offensive question? Or more correctly, why are you so horrified about actually answering it? That says a lot more about people like you than it does people asking the question.

What's wrong with asking about something the show is pushing so hard on the audience? Is England really that oppressed that they have to use a show aimed at children to try to overcome their racist bent? (And they are, as a whole, a very racist people. Hell, they can't even bring up people from a different area of their own major city without saying something rude about them, let alone regions of their tiny little island nation. You can find it everywhere over there. Even their "national treasures" like Stephen Fry can't help themselves, it's so engrained. Worse, they try to hide it by saying they're just "taking the piss" out of others, but that's just an absurd rationalization to be like that.)

At least, that's the only reasoning I can come up for why they push it as hard as they do. Sure, there's nothing wrong with mixed relationships, and I was in one myself until my wife passed away, but considering the absurdly high ratio of them that the show presents, it's still very odd.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Oh and one other thing and this is more of a TV pet peeve. In one scene they are in this liquid substance and soaking wet. In the next scene they are completely dry. Just once I would love an explanation if they are going to do something like that. Almost took me out of the episode.

It was both explained in the episode and explained in the fourth post of this thread if you missed it the first time.

 

[Saul]

Not a great episode for the Doctor or the Daleks. I always thought Moffat would do something bigger with them. Capaldi is good. I like his dark Doctor but I hope it won't be the talking point of each episode. Ok, you're dark, lets move on with it. Other Doctors have done the "i'm conflicted with the darkness inside me" thing.

 

[hawkman]

Journey definitely found a better way, as did Gretchen AND Rusty. Self sacrifice is something few are capable of.
And my vote is that Missy is the Mistress, AKA the Master. Paves the way for a female Doctor.

 

[sonak]

Like the last episode, my reaction is "meh." There are parts of the 12th doctor I like and parts I don't. I like that he's more serious, calmer, and less manic and quirky than the previous two. However, while I like the dry humor, he comes off as a dick sometimes, like in his line about how the dead guy was on the top layer if they wanted to say a few words, and in his coldness to the female soldier who'd lost her brother.

You don't want a Doctor who strays too far into a-hole territory. Also, what's with the nonsense about him having a thing against soldiers? Not only is that offensive, don't the writers remember UNIT, and that Lethbridge-Stewart was a SOLDIER and a good friend of the Doctor's?

The idea of a good Dalek was cool, and I was pleasantly surprised that it didn't turn out to be a trick, just an accident of brain chemistry.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Has the "it's smaller on the outside!" phrase been used before?

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Has the "it's smaller on the outside!" phrase been used before?

Yes, by Clara actually... well 19th century Clara.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOXmMAEdpP4[/yt]

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Has the "it's smaller on the outside!" phrase been used before?

Clara's intro in the Christmas Special, The Snowmen

 

[Mr Awe]

Good, almost excellent.

I really enjoyed this one. Great characters, great action, and an interesting journey where we haven't gone before, inside a Dalek! Really good stuff where you felt like you were on the rebel ship. I loved the call back to Hartnell's first encounter with the Daleks and how he figured it all out then.

Downsides were I could've done with the Pink character. Those scenes didn't add. Also, despite trying to answer the question of whether the Doctor was a good man, we really didn't see his new character much. He was just the Doctor. I enjoyed Capaldi's portrayal but we didn't get to the deeper question much at all. Sure there were a few lines about his prejudices against the Daleks, but nothing deep.

Still, very enjoyable!

Mr Awe

 

[JoeZhang]

Just... no. If you didn't have a problem you wouldn't have seen the need to bring the topic up; it would have never occurred to you. Did you really think this question would get a good response here? Not every thought that enters your mind needs to be said out loud.

Why are you taking it as if it were some kind of offensive question? Or more correctly, why are you so horrified about actually answering it? That says a lot more about people like you than it does people asking the question.

What's wrong with asking about something the show is pushing so hard on the audience? Is England really that oppressed that they have to use a show aimed at children to try to overcome their racist bent? (And they are, as a whole, a very racist people. Hell, they can't even bring up people from a different area of their own major city without saying something rude about them, let alone regions of their tiny little island nation. You can find it everywhere over there. Even their "national treasures" like Stephen Fry can't help themselves, it's so engrained. Worse, they try to hide it by saying they're just "taking the piss" out of others, but that's just an absurd rationalization to be like that.)

At least, that's the only reasoning I can come up for why they push it as hard as they do. Sure, there's nothing wrong with mixed relationships, and I was in one myself until my wife passed away, but considering the absurdly high ratio of them that the show presents, it's still very odd.

Have you confused this forum for Stormfront?

 

[Mr Awe]

As far as how much the Dalek 'knows' from the machine, I think the Daleks are kind of 'conditioned' by the computers in their shells. (At least by the time of the Tom Baker era, which sort of retconned Daleks into being more like created robots than survivors of an apocalyptic war).

In Genesis of the Dalek, Davros genetically manipulates the mutants so that they have no conscious, no empathy, and to hate. In the new episode, it sounds like that is done via technology rather than genetics.

Mr Awe

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I for one do not give a shit about these incredibly minor details, and am far more interested in the story of Clara and Danny. The domestic lives of the companions are vital to the show for me.

I don't disagree that Clara's personal life is vital. I question, however, its relevance in this episode. It's like Data as Frankenstein and Troi taking the Command test; these ideas are both good, but they don't belong in the same episode, and each takes away from time that might have been better spent on the other.

Fundamentally, I simply didn't buy any of the 31st-century characters because we never understood them as characters. Everything they did felt arbitrary to me. Heck, I don't even understand why the human leader let the Doctor go at the end; frankly, after the mayhem he caused, the initial instinct to execute the Doctor doesn't seem that unreasonable.

 

[Valin]

Isn't the brigadier his best friend?

^ The Doctor is a hypocrite. Just like he stance of mass destruction and homicide is hypocritical.

He always has been. One of the flaws that makes him more interesting.

 

[JoeZhang]

As far as how much the Dalek 'knows' from the machine, I think the Daleks are kind of 'conditioned' by the computers in their shells. (At least by the time of the Tom Baker era, which sort of retconned Daleks into being more like created robots than survivors of an apocalyptic war).

In Genesis of the Dalek, Davros genetically manipulates the mutants so that they have no conscious, no empathy, and to hate. In the new episode, it sounds like that is done via technology rather than genetics.

Mr Awe

If you listen to the dialogue, I think he says that the technology is to ensure that nothing is missed in the breeding process - so a combination of the two.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Yes, by Clara actually... well 19th century Clara.

Thanks. How can I forget that bit? Matt Smith is lovely.

I have a strange feeling, not sure if it is correct, but it seems like those future humans aren't particularly impressed by the Doctor – and he has his jarring personality and appearances whatever your grasp of technology is. There wasn't even a bit of wonder how he went through their shields (on screen), no security worries over this and having his particularly oversized box inside – which should be ruled a security risk even if you don't know what it is. Only Blue seemed a little bit shaken, but she was shaken before meeting him, and had her brother die, so I was convinced it had nothing to do with the Doctor, who was a little bit of a dick. I was surprised when she asked to run with him. Well, I knew she was going to ask, but it was still weird. I should watch again.

I also wished there was a moment she figured out Clara was actually a school teacher, and went "Wait, I am actually on a mission with a school teacher? An actual school teacher? Why not get some Roman soldiers and Greek philosophers while we're at it?"

Anyway, I think Pink will be more impressionable when he's introduced to the TARDIS. I am looking forward to it. And perhaps forward to Pink and Blue meeting?