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8X02 "Into the Dalek" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Grade "Into the Dalek"

  • Eyebrows

    Votes: 34 28.6%
  • Good

    Votes: 57 47.9%
  • Average

    Votes: 19 16.0%
  • Bad

    Votes: 7 5.9%
  • Exterminate!

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • Total voters
    119
  • Poll closed .
When they did the whole "A good man goes to war" it was before the War Doctor was fully (partially) actualized... Which means in all likelihood he's gone to war as a good man and as a bad man, so maybe he's curious about how he should fight his next war, since the last one took 800 ####ing years.
 
Also, not taking Journey on because she's a soldier makes no sense either. The Doctor was a soldier, and wound up redeeming his Time War incarnation, not to mention being married to an ex-psychopath with a propensity for using a gun.

"You're a soldier" is just some random excuse The Doctor thought up. She was rejected because of her attitude throughout the episode. The Doctor saved her life and she immediately starts making demands with a gun pointed at him, and while inside the Dalek she had the tendency to attack first rather than ask questions like Clara did.
 
Oh and one other thing and this is more of a TV pet peeve. In one scene they are in this liquid substance and soaking wet. In the next scene they are completely dry. Just once I would love an explanation if they are going to do something like that. Almost took me out of the episode.

It was explained. They entered a decontamination tube, and like the Doctor said, decontamination tubes are hot. It either stripped the goop when they entered as part of the decontamination, or it dried them off. That was not my biggest concern with the episode.

So far, the last 2 episodes have felt sloppy. The editing is off, the SFX suck, the writing is uneven and unpolished in both episodes. The production quality so far this season seems far worse than previous years. Something as simple as the transition from the cold open to the opening credits was horrible. I can't put my finger on it, but everything from the sets and sfx, to the editing and sound work feels like a low budget fan production. Don't get me wrong, I love the new Doctor and the direction he has gone so far, but what they are surrounding him with is sub-par.
 
Remember that the Doctor's opinions on things change from regeneration to regeneration. This incarnation clearly is a little sick of war, after all those years on Trenzalore. And actually, wasn't the tenth Doctor a little hesitant about modern U.N.I.T. too?

Also, regarding Journey -- whom I kind of liked -- I think the reason why he rejected her is because he wasn't 100% sure she could fulfill the role of companion. The Doctor has alluded to the fact, sometimes more explicitly than others, that he needs a companion to keep him in check and to pull him back when he goes to far over the edge. If the Doctor gave an amoral order, would Journey follow it without question, or would she object? Since the Doctor isn't sure about himself at the moment he needs to be extra certain of his companion(s).
 
Not so sure about this "no soldier" thing, that just didn't seem right though not exactly out-of-character. Rather hypocritical I would say.

The "no-soldier" thing is both hypocritical and entitled on the Doctor's part. It doesn't make any sense at all.

The Doctor has always had a somewhat hypocritical ambivalence at best towards the military and guns. Remember the disrespect with which he treated UNIT in "The Sontaran Stratagem"/"The Poison Sky?"

But there's a very specific reason for it in this episode: The idea of a soldier has triggered his own self-loathing.

Remember that bit where he says to Journey, "The Dalek is a better soldier than you'll ever be, you have to find another way?" And then as he's trying to find a better way, Rusty looks into his soul... and sees hatred and war. Rusty defects, but he remains dedicated to death and violence because of the Doctor's influence.

And then he turns to him and declares that the Doctor is a good Dalek. And a Dalek is nothing if not a soldier.

The Doctor knows the necessity of the military. And he cares about soldiers and can respect them. And in the past, he's been friends with them, and probably will be again in the future. But at that particular moment, he can't go there emotionally. Because he's seen his own darkness again, from the time when he was a soldier in the Time War. He sees a soldier's uniform and all he can think of is the worst of himself.

I'm not sure why Journey decided all of a sudden that she wanted to join The Doctor.

I think it's pretty obvious: Because he showed her a better way than war.

And again, with the Doctor's hypocracy...she finds another way to deal with the Dalek and he still rejects her. The Daleks apparently took over her world and want to wipe out all of humanity. So tell me why again it's wrong to be a soldier and fight them?

It's not. But the Doctor can't see past the addiction to violence right now.

I had a few problems with it. Okay, two. And they're related.

I would have liked more backstory on the situation. When does this take place? (The script says 31st-century, but th episode itself doesn't say.) How long has the war gone on? What's the deal with the paranoia and the duplicates? How did things get this way? There's basic world-building that this episode doesn't have. It's poorer for it.

The episode spends its time on Clara's personal life instead. The ten minutes spent on Clara and Danny could have been spent on making the setting more than the generic.

I for one do not give a shit about these incredibly minor details, and am far more interested in the story of Clara and Danny. The domestic lives of the companions are vital to the show for me.

Isn't the brigadier his best friend?

^ The Doctor is a hypocrite. Just like he stance of mass destruction and homicide is hypocritical.

Yep. The Doctor is more than capable of hypocrisy.

I'm really not understanding this whole "am I a good man" thing Moffat's got going on. Pre-Day of the Doctor, sure. But after he found a way to save Gallifrey and everyone on it, you'd think the Doctor wouldn't struggle with the question so much.

The morality of the Doctor has been an ongoing question since the revived show began. Sure, he saves the world -- but he's pretty callous about the lives he disrupts or ruins. You'll notice that he never apologized to Mickey for getting him under investigation for the presumed murder of his girlfriend after he failed to return Rose to 2005. (To say nothing of the fact that he literally ran off with Mickey's girlfriend while the man was right there.) He's emotionally manipulative and addicted to the adoration of young women, to the point where he'll lead women on when he has no intention of starting relationships with them (Martha, arguably Clara). He's willing to perform mentally invasive medical procedures on unconsenting patients if he deems it in their best interests (erasing Donna's memory in "Journey's End"). He's lied to his friend and loved ones God knows how many times -- from lying to Amy about why he invited her aboard, to refusing to tell her and Rory that his scans show her as pregnant sometimes but not other times in Series Six, to letting his closest friends think he's dead for months and months. He let River Song rot in prison for his murder rather than exonerate her.

Goodness knows how many people he's deliberately let die over the years -- from his victims in Pompeii, to the crew of Bowie Base One he was ready to abandon, just to name a few.

He often risks his companions' lives. Most recently, of course, he abandoned Clara to the Marie Antoinette clockwork drones, taking the risk that she wouldn't be able to talk herself out of death in the name of "no sense both of us being captured."

I don't even want to think about how many times he's screwed over his companions -- kidnapping them onto the TARDIS, abandoning them in strange cities, invading their lives at random moments, not being there for them when they needed him.

He is, of course, a thief many times over.

And then there are all the people who've sacrificed themselves in his name or who have become dedicated to violence in the name of planetary defense after meeting the Doctor, as Davros pointed out in "Journey's End."

And even if he ultimately realized that it was wrong and he needed to find a way, he still planned to commit genocide against the Time Lords. (In fact, arguably he tried to do it four times -- three times at once when War, Ten, and Eleven were all set to press the Moment's button together, and a fourth time when Ten sent Gallifrey back into the Time War to be burned at the end of "The End of Time, Part Two.")

Add to this the fact that Twelve literally stole the clothes off a homeless man's back before possibly throwing the Half-Faced Man to his death at a time when the Half-Faced Man did not pose an immediate threat to anyone, and I'd say the Doctor has some pretty good reasons to wonder about himself.
 
I found that pretty underwhelming. I'm liking Capaldi's Doctor and Clara is finally becoming someone I can actually stand for more than a few minutes, but I'm so completely and utterly over the Daleks (and have been since about the Davison era) that the episode was going to have to do something exceptional to win me over. It didn't.

The Danny person's a bit of a cipher, but the crying bit caused me to make a vague mental note. No idea why, but it seemed odd enough to be vaguely noteworthy.

I'm bored with the Missy person, too. As someone said it's coming across as a re-run of the random Kovarian snippets and this time I'm not especially curious as to where it's going to lead.

That's a lot of words about an episode I found rather "eh", but there it is.
 
OK – I'm in!

After a lackluster regeneration story, many good elements but it didn't cohese well, "Into the Dalek" actually works and works well. Okay, there's a dodgy bit of CG and I could care less about the Daleks blow up stuff but this was what I watch Doctor Who for, the continuous message that "there is a better way".

We have so few stories that tell us that anymore and its so valuable, especially now.

I was more than a bit worried that this new, "darker" Doctor would become something other – someone too different and too amoral. Sure the Doctor has those moments, and like in this episode has moments where his best does not have the desired outcome but he doesn't give in to the darkness. That's important.

I am also loving the way Clara is blossoming as a companion. I've liked Jenna Coleman from the start but now Clara is just sparkling.

Bravo and bring on Sherwood Forest for a proper romp! I want to see how Capaldi handles a proper romp.
 
I think I'm liking this colder, harsher doctor. ("she cares so I don't have to").

Then at the end we see that he can't help the Dalek become good, just turn its genocidal instincts on its own kind.

Danny Pink, I dunno, we'll see where that goes. It's pretty obvious there's not going to be anything romantic going on between the Doctor and Clara so it's fair enough to put someone else in her life, who might encourage her back to an ordinary life on earth.

Nerd trivia of the day: that was Dolorous Edd from Game of Thrones as the soldier Ross.

re: world building, I was under the impression that this show rarely bothers much when going to future human civillisations. We're just told here's a Great Human Empire or a research base on a black hole or whatever, then adventure commences.
 
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Not sure what world building was needed? Humans in future under attack from Daleks about covers it.
 
Well, there's clearly something going on with Danny Pink. It wasn't a coincidence that the chick in the future's surname was Blue or that Clara picked up on that really quickly.

Personally I thought they had a fine amount of chemistry, and Danny was quite believable in his reactions to a flirtatious chick that would normally be way out of his league.

My only issue with him is a general issue about Doctor Who since the revival. What's with all the mixed relationships on the show? I don't have anything against them, but it just seems weird how common they are, like they're trying to hammer kids over the head with the idea. I mean, even a lot of the monsters/aliens are indulging it in it, take Vastra and Jenny for instance.
 
Isn't the brigadier his best friend?

^ The Doctor is a hypocrite. Just like he stance of mass destruction and homicide is hypocritical.

He is a hypocrite, and not a hypocrite at the same time. Since he regenerates into a new person basically.

If you think about it. It is a very similar debate to the Trill Symbiote and the Host. Is each incarnation(regeneration) seprate? Or, are all the hosts, the same guy? A good example would be where Dax is accused of murder. Apply that entire debate Sisko had with the other guy whether or not Jadzia Dax is the same person as any other incarnation of Dax.

In short. Is the 12th doctor, the same man as the 11 doctor despite the fact they share the same memories?

Side note: Hearing a Dalek saying "resistance is futile" was really freaking awesome. :hugegrin:
 
There's also the matter of the Doctor choosing the face of someone he only saved because Donna guilted him into doing it.
 
I liked it a lot, more for the Doctor, and a bit of Clara. Plotwise, well, it telegraphed it was going to be a fantastic voyage, and we have heard the Dalek line before, but it was smart enough and ripped along pretty well. Bodes well.

Oh, I haven't checked, but there were angry eyebrows in the credits this week (that I notcied, that was cool.
 
Also, not taking Journey on because she's a soldier makes no sense either. The Doctor was a soldier, and wound up redeeming his Time War incarnation, not to mention being married to an ex-psychopath with a propensity for using a gun.

"You're a soldier" is just some random excuse The Doctor thought up. She was rejected because of her attitude throughout the episode. The Doctor saved her life and she immediately starts making demands with a gun pointed at him, and while inside the Dalek she had the tendency to attack first rather than ask questions like Clara did.

While I'm sure it wasn't intentional, it does indirectly tie in to the recent War Doctor novel Engines of War.

Cinder was gunned down by a mad Time Lord (the Doctor had earlier saved) and bled out on the floor of the TARDIS console room after being subjected to a Time Lord mind probe.
 
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