8472: What Went Wrong?

[Anwar]

So, in order to make your argument make sense we have to disregard the sporadic appearances of "some aliens" when they should have been long behind Voyager

Usually it was a one-off appearance, so no it doesn't count as a continuing race.

, we have to allow for anything the Kazon did since regardless the audience would have hated it,

The audience hated them as soon as they saw what they looked like. So yeah.

and we have to allow for the fact that Kes' gift wasn't really getting them clear of Borg Space even though that's
what they said happened?

The crew aren't omniscient, they wouldn't have known exactly how huge Borg space was.

If a lot of people behaved like you do I'd be more inclined to buy this "Voyager Victim" stuff but as is you're the only poster who is so...emphatic about it.

-Withers-​

Most are still too in love with guys like Ron Moore to want to stand up for a series he didn't like, whereas I don't think Moore is the second coming so I can easily like something he doesn't. And I don't think the world of Ira Behr either.

I admit, I wasn't like this a year or so ago and I wouldn't have argued as much as I do but the bashing just got to me after a while. I have a history of doing this, I defend Alien 3, Spider-Man 3 and Beast Machines.

 

[Withers]

Well... okay. I'm tired of this though, let's go fight about Quark for a while. I promise if the love-fest that is the DS9 forum starts to become too one sided I'll switch to your side for a while.

-Withers-​

 

[exodus]

Most are still too in love with guys like Ron Moore to want to stand up for a series he didn't like, whereas I don't think Moore is the second coming so I can easily like something he doesn't. And I don't think the world of Ira Behr either.

I admit, I wasn't like this a year or so ago and I wouldn't have argued as much as I do but the bashing just got to me after a while. I have a history of doing this, I defend Alien 3, Spider-Man 3 and Beast Machines.

Do you have a fanclub and if so, how can I be a member?

 

[Anwar]

I'll try and scrunge up a clubhouse somewhere .

 

[exodus]

Cool, I'll bring the beers.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Well, I disagree on overexposure during VOY's run itself. The Dominion made more appearances in DS9 and they weren't "overexposed".

Then again, the key difference was that the Dominion was DS9's own creation so people were more along the lines of "Well, they MADE the Dominion so they can do whatever they want". With the Borg, they were created in another series so there was less tolerance for what the writers on VOY could do with them.

The Borg were over exposed IMO. And not only were they over exposed, they were turned into yet another dorky Star Trek race and lost their hippness. I blame this mostly on Voyager, but also on First Contact for even creating the Queen in the first place.

And the difference between the Borg and DS9's Dominion is very clear; DS9 wasn't going anywhere, the Dominion was coming to them. I can't believe with a galaxy as big as this one, 400 billion stars, and lets say a 1/4 of them in the Delta Quadrant, that the Borg would be showing up at much as they did.

It just showed a lack of imagination on Voyager's writing staff.

Rob

 

[Anwar]

They only showed up 8 times. That really isn't much compared to how big the DQ was.

Again, there wasn't a SINGLE other species (aside from the Voth) VOY would run into more than a few times as it is. They learned their lesson in bothering to develop their aliens from the Kazon, Vidiians and co: It didn't matter since they wouldn't show up much in the first place, so there's NO point in developing them or putting much thought into them. That and the audience hated every single last one of them no matter what the audience did.

Of course, NuBSG gets away with it by having the Cylons always chasing the Ragtag Fleet but no one ever bothers to point out how silly THAT was.

Nor did anyone point out how silly it was for the Peacekeepers to always be chasing Moya in Farscape.

Oh no, it's simply VOY and VOY alone that gets criticized for having their enemies show up more then twice. No matter how well-developed they could have been.

 

[exodus]

Well, I disagree on overexposure during VOY's run itself. The Dominion made more appearances in DS9 and they weren't "overexposed".

Then again, the key difference was that the Dominion was DS9's own creation so people were more along the lines of "Well, they MADE the Dominion so they can do whatever they want". With the Borg, they were created in another series so there was less tolerance for what the writers on VOY could do with them.

The Borg were over exposed IMO. And not only were they over exposed, they were turned into yet another dorky Star Trek race and lost their hippness. I blame this mostly on Voyager, but also on First Contact for even creating the Queen in the first place.

And the difference between the Borg and DS9's Dominion is very clear; DS9 wasn't going anywhere, the Dominion was coming to them. I can't believe with a galaxy as big as this one, 400 billion stars, and lets say a 1/4 of them in the Delta Quadrant, that the Borg would be showing up at much as they did.

It just showed a lack of imagination on Voyager's writing staff.

Rob

Well, how can you be a conquering species if you don't explore/scearch for other beings to assimilate to expand your territory? The Delta Quad. is Borg territory, they had every right to be any where they wanted. Most times Voyager went looking for them on purpose for a reason, they didn't just bump into them. We accept that Klingons who are from the Beta Quad. are nearly everywhere in the Alpha Quad., Why is it so odd to have Borg explore their own Quad, just like the Federation do? It's not lack of imagination, it's exploration.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Nope. They were introduced as a simple plot device to explain why the Borg wouldn't just annihilate Voyager in a millisecond. Once that story was done, the writers had no further use for them and needed them gone before they had too much of an effect on the Trekverse with the nigh-godlike power.

Which makes perfect sense, really. At least the fact that they lived in another universe altogether gave Voyager more of an out than TOS had with the Organians.