7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)
- Thread starter Samurai8472
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Hmm. I guess I hyped myself up too much. The word I would use to describe that is....ambitious. Maybe great, but I don't have a "This is the best episode ever!" feeling about it.
I think part of the problem is that there was too much packed into the 42 minutes. This could've improved if they gave it breathing room. Maybe 60 minutes to alleviate the rushed feeling. By the time the Great Intelligence is done pontificating, there's like 14 minutes of the episode left; not much time for a payoff and resolution, so everything has to be super rushed.
I don't know...I guess I should watch it again. Clara saving him doesn't feel like a sacrifice because she doesn't have enough time to ponder what it means, and she's in the time stream for like 2 seconds (although it's cool seeing her with the old footage). I thought it was going to be like the end of The End of Time.
It just felt....truncated. I saw tears on Clara's face but I didn't have time to feel the emotion of her making this sacrifice to save him. I think a lot was left on the cutting room floor with this one.
I think part of the problem is that there was too much packed into the 42 minutes. This could've improved if they gave it breathing room. Maybe 60 minutes to alleviate the rushed feeling. By the time the Great Intelligence is done pontificating, there's like 14 minutes of the episode left; not much time for a payoff and resolution, so everything has to be super rushed.
I don't know...I guess I should watch it again. Clara saving him doesn't feel like a sacrifice because she doesn't have enough time to ponder what it means, and she's in the time stream for like 2 seconds (although it's cool seeing her with the old footage). I thought it was going to be like the end of The End of Time.
It just felt....truncated. I saw tears on Clara's face but I didn't have time to feel the emotion of her making this sacrifice to save him. I think a lot was left on the cutting room floor with this one.
Because the Doctor was going to let everyone die?
She showed him the secret door before that, and new why she was still connected Clara and that it was spoilers... She must have been feigning ignorance again earlier in the story.
That did nothing but make me groan. Worst of the season for me. I simply couldn't bring myself to care about any of it. The only part I liked were the few seconds at the end with John Hurt and that's only because I'm naturally curious about him being the Doctor.
I really liked it, but I agree with you. There was just so much happening that it didn't really stop to take the time to let everything sink in. This would have been a really great two part episode, expanding it to not be so rushed at the end.
So is John Hurt the last incarnate of the Doctor? Is he a forgotten Doctor? I'm not sure how I feel about the ending (Maybe need to see it again) but I do know I am looking forward November. One worry I had was the 50th anniversary show would be nothing but fanwanks (In the same vain as, say, Time Crash) but it sounds like it will be advancing the story and maybe even be an epiloge to Season 7. I do agree though, now that we know the mystery of Clara, I hope we can get some growth to this character now. Coleman was amazing in this episode, probably along the lines of Asylum, so I really hope that continues through the special and into Season 8.
Great episode, but I gave it a grade below Excellent because it felt rushed at the end.
She knew Clara could rectify everything he was going to do?
Excellent. Loved it, and I have been very disappointed in this season overall. The Scooby Doo gang couldn't even ruin this one.
I hope we've seen the last of River.
The footage of all the old Doctors was outstanding. I can't wait to find out who the Hurt Doctor is.
I hope we've seen the last of River.
The footage of all the old Doctors was outstanding. I can't wait to find out who the Hurt Doctor is.
4/5. A bit disappointing. This one was too rushed, and should've been a 2 parter. If this was a 4 part story in the classic series, we got to see part 1 and 4, but not the middle. It was interesting in some ways but it also was a lot of plot through exposition. And, if you think about it, all the action happens off screen (in the Doctor's timeline).
Guess the rumors were right about Hurt appearing at the end as a forgotten "Doctor". Although, the Doctor didn't forget that incarnation, just kept him a secret.
I enjoyed seeing the First Doctor and Susan stealing the TARDIS, but that really should've been a whole story by itself!!
Mr Awe
Guess the rumors were right about Hurt appearing at the end as a forgotten "Doctor". Although, the Doctor didn't forget that incarnation, just kept him a secret.
I enjoyed seeing the First Doctor and Susan stealing the TARDIS, but that really should've been a whole story by itself!!
Mr Awe
Meh. It is rather slow-paced and talky, which isn't really the strongest way to end a season. Say what you want about RTD, his finales were never slow-paced and talky.
We start with a decentally done sequence of Clara in the Doctor's timestream. The splicing of JLC and footage of the various Doctors was rather clunky, but then that should have been expected given they were merging standard def with high def. And really, the only one that really looked bad was Troughton stomping by Clara. Although I wonder why they decided to splice footage with Hartnell in as opposed to having David Bradley fiml the scene. I think that would have worked out better, but maybe he was unavailable, off filming the docudrama.
Ironically, despite being their creator Moffat just doesn't write Vastra, Jenny and Strax as well as Mark Gatiss did a few weeks ago. Strax has some fine one-liners once again, although his cofusing genders is starting to reach a limit. I like the joke, and do smile every time he calls a woman "boy" or ironically this week he actually calls a boy "girl." But, this guy was a nurse, after all, and that's a job which kind of requires some knowledge of how to differentiate genders.
And what the hell is the deal with Strax in Scotland anyway? Does he go there on his weekends off and spar with that big muscular dude?
As predicted, we the audience don't learn the Doctor's name, though since Clara now remembers the events from Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS she should presumably now remember it. Or at the very least she'd remember River saying it to open the TARDIS door.
So this time River is the data ghost left behind in the Library's computer core. The line about being left behind like a used book is a nice touch implying she doesn't really enjoy spedning eternity in a virtual world looking after imaginary kids after all.
And finally, John Hurt. Obviously he is a past incarnation given the Eleventh Doctor talks about him in the past tense. Clearly, this incarnation didn't call himself the Doctor, which I guess is how they're going to get around him being a previous incarnation but not having to adjust the numbering so that Matt Smith is actually the Twelfth Doctor. I see some people suggesting he's from before the Doctor began using the Doctor name. and that could tie in perfectly with the Brain of Morbius and all those other faces which were supposedly other incarnations of the Doctor. However, the stuff about "breaking the promise" implies to me that he probably is later incarnation that chose for some reason (Time War, perhaps?) not to call himself the Doctor.
We start with a decentally done sequence of Clara in the Doctor's timestream. The splicing of JLC and footage of the various Doctors was rather clunky, but then that should have been expected given they were merging standard def with high def. And really, the only one that really looked bad was Troughton stomping by Clara. Although I wonder why they decided to splice footage with Hartnell in as opposed to having David Bradley fiml the scene. I think that would have worked out better, but maybe he was unavailable, off filming the docudrama.
Ironically, despite being their creator Moffat just doesn't write Vastra, Jenny and Strax as well as Mark Gatiss did a few weeks ago. Strax has some fine one-liners once again, although his cofusing genders is starting to reach a limit. I like the joke, and do smile every time he calls a woman "boy" or ironically this week he actually calls a boy "girl." But, this guy was a nurse, after all, and that's a job which kind of requires some knowledge of how to differentiate genders.
And what the hell is the deal with Strax in Scotland anyway? Does he go there on his weekends off and spar with that big muscular dude?
As predicted, we the audience don't learn the Doctor's name, though since Clara now remembers the events from Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS she should presumably now remember it. Or at the very least she'd remember River saying it to open the TARDIS door.
So this time River is the data ghost left behind in the Library's computer core. The line about being left behind like a used book is a nice touch implying she doesn't really enjoy spedning eternity in a virtual world looking after imaginary kids after all.
And finally, John Hurt. Obviously he is a past incarnation given the Eleventh Doctor talks about him in the past tense. Clearly, this incarnation didn't call himself the Doctor, which I guess is how they're going to get around him being a previous incarnation but not having to adjust the numbering so that Matt Smith is actually the Twelfth Doctor. I see some people suggesting he's from before the Doctor began using the Doctor name. and that could tie in perfectly with the Brain of Morbius and all those other faces which were supposedly other incarnations of the Doctor. However, the stuff about "breaking the promise" implies to me that he probably is later incarnation that chose for some reason (Time War, perhaps?) not to call himself the Doctor.
I think Doctor Hurt sounds ominous. 
Could Hurt be a pre-Doctor that was also in the Time-War? The Timelords resurrected Rassilon, they might also have let him cross his own timeline in hopes of winning the war.
Or he's The Other after all. Or an aged version of #8 as was suggested, who lived a looooong time before regenerating into #9.
I agree this episode would have been better as a two-parter. More crossover/past Doctor scenes would have been nice.
"Steal this one. The navigation system's knackered, but you'll have more fun." Great line.
Or he's The Other after all. Or an aged version of #8 as was suggested, who lived a looooong time before regenerating into #9.
I agree this episode would have been better as a two-parter. More crossover/past Doctor scenes would have been nice.
"Steal this one. The navigation system's knackered, but you'll have more fun." Great line.
Matt Smith clearly said "The name I chose is The Doctor. The name you choose is like a promise you make. He's the one who broke the promise."
The implication is that Hurt's character started out as The Doctor but did something so bad that the other incarnations of The Doctor refuse to give the title of Doctor to John Hurt incarnation.
The implication is that Hurt's character started out as The Doctor but did something so bad that the other incarnations of The Doctor refuse to give the title of Doctor to John Hurt incarnation.
A decent story idea, but the episode as a whole was a bit of a letdown. A rushed & under-developed plot and just generally poorly structured/edited. They go from running from the Wisper Men inside the TARDIS-Tomb to suddenly appearing at the entrance in the next scene and basically 'giving themselves up'. Lots of good ideas in there, just not a satisfying execution.
Still miles better than the last finale though.
Still miles better than the last finale though.
I like John Hurt personally. Big fan. But I think I would've been positively blown away had it been Paul McGann that turned around to face them at the end. I don't believe the 8th Doctor was featured in the episode with Clara encountering the incarnations, so wouldn't it have been awesome for the reveal to be HIM? Or maybe Eccleston pre-Rose?
Another thing that confused me....Clara seems to just take it in stride that there have been multiple versions of the Doctor. Doesn't even faze her. The Doctor must've told her about regenerations and stuff off-screen, unless she knows it intrinsically as a result of Journey to the Center of the TARDIS.
Another thing that confused me....Clara seems to just take it in stride that there have been multiple versions of the Doctor. Doesn't even faze her. The Doctor must've told her about regenerations and stuff off-screen, unless she knows it intrinsically as a result of Journey to the Center of the TARDIS.
Yes, that's Strax's idea of fun during a weekend off. What did you find confusing?
My thinking is that Hurt is portraying a "Dark Doctor", another version of the Valeyard, or perhaps the Dream Lord. Hurt isn't another unknown incarnation, but a representation of all the things that the Doctor hates about himself or regrets doing. He's the face of what he did in the Last Great Time War.
Unless, since the Doctor was in his own time-stream at that time, he knew about future incarnations as well.
And the Valeyard was between 12 & 13 wasn't he?
Psh. We've known since "The Brain of Morbius" that there were pre-Hartnall Doctors.
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Having him turn around and be the Peter Cushing Doctor would have been the ultimate troll.Psh. We've known since "The Brain of Morbius" that there were pre-Hartnall Doctors.
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