6x04 The Doctor's Wife(Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)

[PorthosShadow]

I think he deduced the only way to defeat the Daleks would entail destroying the Timelords as well, so he scarpered. I'm not sure whether he had any long term plan or not but presumably he envisaged being the Master again.

Given the Master, Davros, the Emperor, the Cult of Skaro, the Dalek from "Dalek" as well as a whole heap of other Daleks survived the Timewar, I still find the notion that no other Timelords survived unlikely. If Moffat or another showrunner wants to bring them back he (or she) will, irrespective of Time Locks, moments or anything else...

It's kind of amusing how all the bad guy's somehow fell through the cracks at the end of The Time War but all the good guys or as good as The Time Lords could be were wiped out. That's why I think a small group of them escaped and rebuilt Galifrey in secret.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I viewed that as being in a point in time before the final explosion. It was clear they were still fighting.

Anyway, it's also clear that some managed to escape - possibly before the time lock. Certainly, the Master got away. I'm still holding out home for some of the good ones too.

The Master got away because he FOB'd himself (into Prof Yana) before the Moment. He was recruited to fight, saw something coming (maybe he knows about/what the Moment is and it affects Timelords and Daleks (or was set to affect only them), so the Chameleon Arch rewrote his biology to be (human) Yana.

Since the new series began in 2005, I've always held the belief that The Time Lords in whole or part managed to escape "the moment" but obviously on the whole, I was wrong. However, I have to believe that beyond The Master and The Doctor, more had to survive. I just find it very difficult to believe that the masters of time and space for billions of years could be so easily locked away.

Well, that's what this episode was about. Some escaped the Time War before the end (possibly out fighting and not on Gallifrey). They sent out distress calls and got sucked out of the universe. Then House killed those that came his way.

The way I view it is the War was timelocked. Meaning the events could not be rewritten, not that they were trapped in some prison. At the beginning, it made sense. They would destroy the Daleks for good without having any time traveling Dalek reset this. However, it became clear something wasn't going as it was supposed to. The Doctor made his choice and killed off both. Before he did so, some Time Lords decided to escape the time lock and appear outside of it in order to be protected (this failed in Tennant's last episode). I think others escaped through other methods (such as not becoming Time Lord anymore).

Anyway, the whole thing is a plot device. It's best not to overthink it.

 

[PorthosShadow]

The Master got away because he FOB'd himself (into Prof Yana) before the Moment. He was recruited to fight, saw something coming (maybe he knows about/what the Moment is and it affects Timelords and Daleks (or was set to affect only them), so the Chameleon Arch rewrote his biology to be (human) Yana.

Since the new series began in 2005, I've always held the belief that The Time Lords in whole or part managed to escape "the moment" but obviously on the whole, I was wrong. However, I have to believe that beyond The Master and The Doctor, more had to survive. I just find it very difficult to believe that the masters of time and space for billions of years could be so easily locked away.

Well, that's what this episode was about. Some escaped the Time War before the end (possibly out fighting and not on Gallifrey). They sent out distress calls and got sucked out of the universe. Then House killed those that came his way.

The way I view it is the War was timelocked. Meaning the events could not be rewritten, not that they were trapped in some prison. At the beginning, it made sense. They would destroy the Daleks for good without having any time traveling Dalek reset this. However, it became clear something wasn't going as it was supposed to. The Doctor made his choice and killed off both. Before he did so, some Time Lords decided to escape the time lock and appear outside of it in order to be protected (this failed in Tennant's last episode). I think others escaped through other methods (such as not becoming Time Lord anymore).

Anyway, the whole thing is a plot device. It's best not to overthink it.

Yeah, when you try to apply logic to a show that is nearly 50 years old and deals with time travel, you might have gone round the bend

 

[Guartho]

Ok, so the Doctor effectively ended the Temporal Cold War, but that still doesn't tell us who Future Guy is! Is he Rory? Will we ever know?

 

[Psion]

Pay attention! Future Guy was Omega.

 

[Guartho]

NOW it all makes sense!

 

[PorthosShadow]

NOW it all makes sense!

He was an angry future Romulan!

 

[Butters]

Family Guy was Omega?

 

[Guartho]

I did some photo-enhancing on an old screen cap. The results were shocking to say the least.

 

[Butters]

I did some photo-enhancing on an old screen cap. The results were shocking to say the least.

Bahr Gumb!

 

[Shatnertage]

It's kind of amusing how all the bad guy's somehow fell through the cracks at the end of The Time War but all the good guys or as good as The Time Lords could be were wiped out.

In the words of Dark Helmet...

"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

 

[Psion]

I did some photo-enhancing on an old screen cap. The results were shocking to say the least.

Two Bolian thumbs up!

 

[23skidoo]

This is a feeling I've had about Matt Smith's Doctor since "The 11th Hour" and there is nothing specific I can point to. But his Doctor feels far more dangerous than the previous ten.

Watch the Sixth Doctor physically assault Peri in The Twin Dilemma, make a Bond-like quip after throwing a couple guys into (IIRC) a vat of acid in Vengeance on Varos and chloroform the Androgum to death in The Two Doctors. This is nothing new.

Even the Fourth Doctor had his moments of dark behavior - watch what he does to Solon in The Brain of Morbius.

And as it's been pretty well firmly implied that the Eighth Doctor regenerated into the Ninth due to the Time War, that means it was likely the Eighth who did the nasty to the Daleks and Gallifrey.

Alex

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

Future Guy is obviously the Valeyard. Didn't you ever wonder what happened to him?

 

[wamdue]

And as it's been pretty well firmly implied that the Eighth Doctor regenerated into the Ninth due to the Time War, that means it was likely the Eighth who did the nasty to the Daleks and Gallifrey.

Alex

I still think the end of the Time War was the first act of the 9th Doctor, born in a war, like the other 10th Doctor.

the Doctor even says to Rose, do you recongise him, hes me when we first meet.

I think the events of Journey's End, the birth and early life of the other 10th Doctor, are meant to mirror the birth and early life of the 9th Doctor in the Time War.

Well thats my reading of it anyways, you guys dont have to agree.

 

[Starkers]

I think he deduced the only way to defeat the Daleks would entail destroying the Timelords as well, so he scarpered. I'm not sure whether he had any long term plan or not but presumably he envisaged being the Master again.

Given the Master, Davros, the Emperor, the Cult of Skaro, the Dalek from "Dalek" as well as a whole heap of other Daleks survived the Timewar, I still find the notion that no other Timelords survived unlikely. If Moffat or another showrunner wants to bring them back he (or she) will, irrespective of Time Locks, moments or anything else...

It's kind of amusing how all the bad guy's somehow fell through the cracks at the end of The Time War but all the good guys or as good as The Time Lords could be were wiped out. That's why I think a small group of them escaped and rebuilt Galifrey in secret.

Exactly, and as for the Doctor's comment that 'he'd know.' well I think perception filters take care of that. Like I say, we may see them again, we may never see them again, but the events of The End of Time will be ignored if someone ever does bring them back.

 

[I am not Spock]

Absolutely awesome episode. I was glued to my seat. I hope Gaiman writes again.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

The one thing I did like, was that for once the episode wasn't set on earth. It seems like every single episode of NuWho is set on earth. I hope the other writers take note....




Not that they will...

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

^Yeah, gotta agree with that. A little too Earth centric. And if not Earth, then New Earth, Earth colonies, Earth ships, etc.

Not to mention, until Amy, too much family involved.

I still like it all though.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, New Earth was the first non-Earth, non-satellite episode (and it was still New Earth). Impossible Planet was the closest until Planet of the Ood. I'm willing to forgive earth colonies as long as there is an alien presence. That's been a staple of Doctor Who forever. It's best when they don't even make clear whether they're human or not.