It's Zathrus!
6.5x08 Let's Kill Hitler (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)
- Thread starter Samurai8472
- Start date
It's Zathrus!
34 years with this show and that was one of the cleverest and most enjoyable hours I've ever seen. So much great humor in the first half. I didn't realize it was River until she started to regenerate., then it seemed obvious. Loved the complete flip of the Doc knowing everything and River being clueless. Loved the Doc's new coat and I hope we see it again. I thought it was clever how this ep has been set up to be some kind of Nazi/Hitler thing and, in fact, had almost nothing to do with them.
I've been entertained. BBC earns it's pay for the week.
I've been entertained. BBC earns it's pay for the week.
My big questions. Who were Mels' parents in Leadworth? Who did she live with?
During the break between AGMGTW and LKH, I DVR'd some of the Eccleston/Tennant eps, along with watching some classic Tom Baker shows from the library. The comparison between those earlier versions to Moffat's take on the DW universe is really quite startling. Moffat should realize that there is a huge difference between an intricate storyline, and one that's become just plain convoluted.
The show still has its moments, but IMO, those moments are becoming further and further apart.
I don't think she's a child.
If she's old, somewhere in her 30s to 400s, "Melody" has been trained to weevil into a situation and lay in wait for her target by that evil church.
Have you never read the Adventures of Pippi Longstockings?
It was limited commercial interruption, just three commercial breaks.
The first break was the animated sequence that expanded on the motorcycle chase.
The second was a commercial for The Hour.
The third was a Doctor Who Insider and a promo for the companions special.
Timey Wimey Telly Welly
Something feels off to me about this episode. It's made River's story incredibly convoluted, and I'm not sure how much I like it. The ending, too, feels like they realized they had written themselves into a corner with the whole time-lady thing, and had to explain why River didn't regenerate in the library. This isn't the same show that hooked me any more. I think the fun is gone. I get that they're trying to tell a more complex story this season, but it's just not working for me. The story they're telling just isn't interesting enough, or goes off in odd directions.
If your blue and don't know where to go to why don't you go where fashion sit, putin' on the ritz!
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJcznq7N4Yc[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFabjc6mFk4[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG3PnQ3tgzY[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ-aRwEbp5I[/yt]
Well, might as well quote you here because I did see the episode, but thanks.
Great episode, and well worth the wait for the summer. Loved this different side of River and watching the backstory play out, pretty much knowing what was to come, was excellent and pretty fun.
Other than the Doctor Dying in Utah, and the revelation about the Silints, are we done with the universe being angry at the doctor storyline? Was it all leading up to the River Song revelation and are we going to get back to some one off Doctor Who for a time? Also, I echo the question upthread. I thought we were going to see the Eye Patch lady again but it seems like things got wrapped up in a way where the show might finally be ready to move on.
Something tells me that we're not quite done with all that just yet. Just a gut feeling.
I was disappointed by this episodes and here are my reasons why:
1: Regeneration has lost all significance and wonder and magic and bittersweetness that it once had. It used to be that the Doctor regenerated only when he was finally defeated in some way or if he had to make a final act of sacrifice. It represented the end of a character we had grown to love and admire even if we often disliked him at first. As much as I initially disliked and prejudged each new Doctor, I grew to love and lament the loss of each of them from Hartnell to Tennant. That was the magic of regeneration. Now it's a plot device, drained of all emotional impact and meaning. Which leads me to:
2: River Song's past is utterly glossed over. Her previous incarnation, "Mels", was completely wasted. I wanted to get to know Melody in her previous life. I would have much preferred that she had stayed as a series-long antagonist/foil for the Doctor and undergone a character arc that would've seen her change and grow and gradually break her mental conditioning, culminating in a final act of sacrifice and regeneration into the River form we know and love. Appearing for five minutes before being shot by Hitler is just lame. The "Mels" incarnation was a throaway face with a throwaway backstory to tie up the loose ends left in "A good Man Goes to War". Which leads me to:
3: The best laid plans of a bunch of tools were built up and wiped away in a two-parter. Seeing River go through her childhood, and her brief rampage before her heel-face turn in this episode is a painful anticlimax to the previous episode about a whole organisation working against the doctor and all its intricate deceptions and plans for Melody and actually being effective at it. Everything is now neatly bookended and sorted out and we don't ever have to explore River as anything but a recurring ally and love interest for the Doctor. All we have to worry about is the Silence, who have turned out to be a religious organisation. Which leads me to:
4: A Religious organisation is the source of the attempted destruction of the universe and is probably the same organisation that sees itself as fighting a valiant holy war agains the "evil" Doctor? I don't think this series could possibly get more preachy against religion - and I'm saying that as an unwavering anti-theist. I personally agree with the statement by Christopher Hitchens that "religion poisons everything". But even I have to express my distaste for this heavy-handed homily that religious fervour and dogma is the enemy of everything good. It's propaganda, plain and simple. If I wanted to spread the message that religious thought is dangerous, I'd implore people to read the bible and koran and any holy book from cover to cover and make their own judgement about how plausible and moral and ethical they are. I wouldn't put on a show that kids watch and tell them something like: "religious zealots killed Superman!!!". It's the same kind of tactic that religious zealots use to sway people. Speaking of killing heroes, that leads me to:
5: I'm getting annoyed at how the writers of the show are daring us to take for granted that the Doctor's not going to get himself out of his demise at the hands of a space suit that may or may not have a person in it next to a lake in Utah. First we have a man say "he is most certainly dead." and now a computer archive saying "yep, he definitely finally dies at this date and location!". The only possible way they could stop insulting my intelligence now would be to actually go through with it by really keeping the Doctor dead and ending the series permanently.
1: Regeneration has lost all significance and wonder and magic and bittersweetness that it once had. It used to be that the Doctor regenerated only when he was finally defeated in some way or if he had to make a final act of sacrifice. It represented the end of a character we had grown to love and admire even if we often disliked him at first. As much as I initially disliked and prejudged each new Doctor, I grew to love and lament the loss of each of them from Hartnell to Tennant. That was the magic of regeneration. Now it's a plot device, drained of all emotional impact and meaning. Which leads me to:
2: River Song's past is utterly glossed over. Her previous incarnation, "Mels", was completely wasted. I wanted to get to know Melody in her previous life. I would have much preferred that she had stayed as a series-long antagonist/foil for the Doctor and undergone a character arc that would've seen her change and grow and gradually break her mental conditioning, culminating in a final act of sacrifice and regeneration into the River form we know and love. Appearing for five minutes before being shot by Hitler is just lame. The "Mels" incarnation was a throaway face with a throwaway backstory to tie up the loose ends left in "A good Man Goes to War". Which leads me to:
3: The best laid plans of a bunch of tools were built up and wiped away in a two-parter. Seeing River go through her childhood, and her brief rampage before her heel-face turn in this episode is a painful anticlimax to the previous episode about a whole organisation working against the doctor and all its intricate deceptions and plans for Melody and actually being effective at it. Everything is now neatly bookended and sorted out and we don't ever have to explore River as anything but a recurring ally and love interest for the Doctor. All we have to worry about is the Silence, who have turned out to be a religious organisation. Which leads me to:
4: A Religious organisation is the source of the attempted destruction of the universe and is probably the same organisation that sees itself as fighting a valiant holy war agains the "evil" Doctor? I don't think this series could possibly get more preachy against religion - and I'm saying that as an unwavering anti-theist. I personally agree with the statement by Christopher Hitchens that "religion poisons everything". But even I have to express my distaste for this heavy-handed homily that religious fervour and dogma is the enemy of everything good. It's propaganda, plain and simple. If I wanted to spread the message that religious thought is dangerous, I'd implore people to read the bible and koran and any holy book from cover to cover and make their own judgement about how plausible and moral and ethical they are. I wouldn't put on a show that kids watch and tell them something like: "religious zealots killed Superman!!!". It's the same kind of tactic that religious zealots use to sway people. Speaking of killing heroes, that leads me to:
5: I'm getting annoyed at how the writers of the show are daring us to take for granted that the Doctor's not going to get himself out of his demise at the hands of a space suit that may or may not have a person in it next to a lake in Utah. First we have a man say "he is most certainly dead." and now a computer archive saying "yep, he definitely finally dies at this date and location!". The only possible way they could stop insulting my intelligence now would be to actually go through with it by really keeping the Doctor dead and ending the series permanently.
Where was the Gestapo in the last half of the episode? A couple dozen Berliners go running naked into the street; surely someone is going to investigate. No one enters the building for twenty minutes? Seriously?