32X13 The Wedding of River Song (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS

[Mr. Astley]

Well that depends how the Doctor presents himself from now on. If he is really serious in pretending he is dead he might stop calling himself the Doctor. In a sense the Doctor ceases to exist.

You really think that for as long as the series continues (which will hopefully be long after Moffat buggers off) the Doctor won't be calling himself the Doctor or involved in any stories in which he saves planets/galaxies/universes?

It'll be forgotten as quickly as they forgot about the Doctor needing the Randomiser to prevent the Black Guardian finding him back in the 70's.

Yes, I think that. I don't think Moffat planned a series arc where the Doctor faked his death, just to go back to normal in the following episodes. Well until he reaches the Fields of Trenzador where he has to answer the question of who he really is (Doctor Who?).

In the meantime the Doctor can save the galaxy incognito.

 

[StCoop]

In the meantime the Doctor can save the galaxy incognito.

Let's see how well he manages at Christmas.

 

[Jax]

And how exactly does a robot start to Regenerate?

You really don't think the Doctor couldn't fake a bit of yellowish light, the guys reset the universe before for god sake

 

[Captain Crow]

Moffat needs to learn that plot twists and surprise endings work better when you don't signpost the solution for them early on with giant flashing neon arrow signs with the word "SOLUTION!" written on them in large friendly letters. The story itself had a few amusing bit's like Dorium but it suffered from the ADD style pacing and the bloated story arc the current series has. A disappointing end to a disappointing series. God I really wanted to like this episode. Oh well, I hope the next series is better.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I liked the beginning but didn't really care for the end. I thought the Doctor's questioning and travels would add up to something more interesting. I'm not sure how time stopping would work exactly. Some fun moments to be had along the way but I don't think they were enough to ultimately carry the episode to success.

If only blue boy had been a head floating in a glass tank of liquid with his name engraved at the bottom...

One good point is it did provide some answer to those thinking Amy should've been more affected by the fate of her daughter.

 

[Butters]

Need to watch it again as I missed the part where they explain why the Tardis exploded in 'The Pandorica Opens.

It seems to me that the question, Dr Who? is verging on reality a little too close. If the question is answered, the series loses its mystery, its appeal, and its viewers. I really hope Moffats not planning a Reg Worf style episode. The series doesn't need another generation in limbo.

References to the Brig, Rose and Jack were well received, and good to see Dickens back again and the suggestion that the Dr could join the Beatles did leave me wondering who could convincingly play Lennon...

My quibble with the Timey Wimey: If the Doctor's death at Lake Silencio is a fixed point and the Doctor can go about his business safe in the knowledge that everyone believes him to be dead. How can Eleven then fall elsewhere? His death is a fact, and the fall of Eleven is inevitable, that can't ever work.

Moffet is a creative genius, but he needs better editorial support. I didn't enjoy the series overall as much as I could have done, and I can't help but feel like the first draft went in to production.

 

[Dac]

Well, what a mess this was? From almost every conceivable viewpoint. The story drew from everywhere with shit being thrown around all over the place, only to serve the purpose of making it look interesting and complex when really they just took the most blatant fixes they introduced to be fixes this year (so blatant I would have bet money the tesselector was a red herring) and tied it all up in a very flat, boring and unconvincing manner.

Then the editing. Jesus Christ this episode was horrible to actually watch, with the first half of the entire episode acting as a "previously on" of previously unseen segments. And then the second half being random action where no one remembers who they are and the big bad guys they gave a great intro to in the first part of this series being resigned to just random henchmen who shoot electricity. There was nothing creepy or scary about them, they resorted to being used as evil Ood.

And then just the style of the episode, my god, did they run out of money or something? Look at this episode next to the opening of the series. Fuck me but the blatantly CG'd shots of the doc and river in the suit at Lake Silencio were terrible, not to mention the rest of the episode looking about as stale and wooden as a 70s ep of the show! Even when you see this ep compared to the Pandorica Opens, it still looks far far worse. Toby Haynes did an amazing job on Pandorica, and the two part season opener this year, why they didn't give him the job again is beyond me.

I'm sure there was a good episode here somewhere, but it was buried underneath layers of unnecessary glitz and crap that just bogged down the story so much...urgh. Why did River change the timeline? How could she?! What the hell actually changed in that time of her life that allowed her to make that change?! NOTHING! She always must have had that life she had (that begun in Nazi Germany) and always ended up killing the doc at that point in time, so, how come she killed him the first time straight up but just changed her mind this time? That's how this was presented right? Like it happened just before on Lake Silencio, that Doc had lived the same life this one did....

 

[JRoss]

Re: SFX Wedding of River Song Review, SPOILERS

Why must things be wrapped up? Have you seen Alias/Lost/The X-Files/Every other show that attempted this? Those that don't wrap things up lose viewers.

 

[JRoss]

Better than I thought it would be, but that's not saying much. River's long, long, long, long, long explanation to Amy was the exact same anti-climax that we experienced in A Good Man Goes to War. Everyone figured it out, and nobody was surprised. I already worked out the question, too.

The question, "Doctor Who?" really bugs me. Since it comes at the "beginning of the universe," I'm worried that Moffat will go all meta and break the fourth wall. Normally I'd say "I'm sure that he won't be that stupid," but I've said that before with more than one plot point and been proven wrong.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Need to watch it again as I missed the part where they explain why the Tardis exploded in 'The Pandorica Open's.

Did they explain that? I didn't think they did.

I have to say, I was a little underwhelmed. Aspects of it I liked, but, it sorta lacked... oomph and surprise. And, emotion. It felt... unemotional. Especially for a wedding.

Ah, well.

 

[StCoop]

Did they explain that? I didn't think they did.

Nope.

Either Moffat's hoping we forgot or is saving it for next year or (god help us) the year after.

 

[JRoss]

This is so frustrating. He explains nothing, he contradicts himself, he seems to think that nobody will guess the obvious when it's apparent that we all did, and over here in the states all the new (within 2 years) fans are eating it up.

This makes me also worried about the 50th anniversary.

 

[MacLeod]

Cn't say there were too many suprises in the episode. As for the question that's been a massive flashing neon sign from say 1963.

I think i would give the episode a 7/10. Nothing impressive about it, it had a few moments where it was good but overall it was fairly average.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Nope, definitely wasn't feeling that.

Once again, we've gone the entire season without actually asnwering any of the important questions. As others have said, this is getting to Lost / X-Files levels of tempt and tease. Not only do we not know the answers to the questions posed this season, we don't know them to the ones posed last season either, and that is massively frustrating. Especially when you've just spent the entire episode twatting about in an alternate timeline instead of actually dealing with the story you set up.

And the bits that did actually resolve some little questions were either so obvious as to be almost insulting (when will people grasp that putting something in the Previouslies is a Spoiler as to what will happen in the episode?), or so glossed over that I can only assume Moffat didn't have confidence in his solutions and wanted to distract the viewer away from that with lots of flashing lights and attention-grabbing cameos.

Learn to tell a coherent fucking story instead of just adding complication on top of complication until the only way out is to give up and pretend it never existed in the first place. God, didn't anyone learn anything from Enterprise?

So basically, I agree with all the criticisms in this thread so far. And I say that as one who's usually an apologist for shows others criticize.

.

 

[Eyes]

I liked it. There were a lot of good concepts in it. The Doctor going round visiting everyone in sheer desperation, it seems, at the beginning, is a nice touch. And as for the robot deal, I'm just glad we got out of that horrible plot point: 'The Doctor has to die', so I'm not concerned about how it's resolved, with what we had before, there's no way to successfully and satisfactorily resolve it.

The ending was great though. The Doctor 'stepping back into the shadows' is, if it's going to be reflected in the show, an excellent move. Everything's been getting way too big, everyone knows the Doctor, and stories become predictable. If he's just exploring time and space from now on, with a much lower profile, I can see better stories arising from it. Just a feeling.

 

[Lonemagpie]

How can the Doctor's death at Lake Silencio be a fixed point if there's also a Fall Of Eleven at Trenzalore which hasn't happened yet?

It's fucking Stavromula Beta all over again, HHGG fans...

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The ending was great though. The Doctor 'stepping back into the shadows' is, if it's going to be reflected in the show, an excellent move. Everything's been getting way too big, everyone knows the Doctor, and stories become predictable. If he's just exploring time and space from now on, with a much lower profile, I can see better stories arising from it. Just a feeling.

If that is the case, I hope they bury the whole "Doctor needs to pay some kind of price for his misdeeds" thing that pops up as well. The funny thing is I thought the playing the "Tremble, I'm the Doctor" card as well as paying the price started and ended with 10. It feels really unearned to me when they applied it to 11.

 

[wamdue]

having now seen the episode, it all seems along way to go for the simple fact it was the teslecta Doctor that died, a theory given too much prominence in the "previously on...." segment.

 

[JoeZhang]

Just seen it and I thought it was garbage.

 

[Ghost Bones]

It's possibly the best season finale yet. Which means in my book it's pushing, ohhh, 3 out of 10.

Fucking bollocks really, but I can't bring the hate for it in the way I could for Let's Write Shitler and A Good Show Goes to Shit. Who was that voice who said "silence will fall" last year then? And what does it even mean?

Still, hopefully that's the last of River. I just can't engage with this shit.