Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by USS Triumphant, Sep 26, 2016.
...so for nuTrek, does that mean that the odd/even curse is reversed?
Speak for yourself, I think ST'09 is the best, then ID then Beyond. But love all 3.
09 was O.K., STID and Beyond were...a little less so.
I think they all had their problems, but ultimately were all good, entertaining films. I don't see any of them as being the 'weakest' they're all around the same standard to me. I could easily pick Beyond as the best as it's the newest and has the biggest novelty value, but I suspect as time goes by it will be regarded as around as good as the others.
The major flaw in your premise is the idea that Into Darkness is "widely regarded" as "bad". It simply isn't regarded that way by anything remotely close to a significant minority, let alone a majority, of viewers.
Unfortunately, your assumption is inaccurate. Every statistic we have shows that STID was more popular than ST:Beyond, though I preferred Beyond over STiD, but not by a huge margin. RT: 86% positive critical reaction, Beyond: 83%; RT fan rating: STID 91%, Beyond 83%. Metacritic: 71, Beyond 68. Box office: STID: $467 million. Beyond: $336 miilion+
Some Star Trek fans may not like Into Darkness. But, behind Trek 2009, its probably the biggest mainstream success of the bunch. It is the 4th highest reviewed film of the entire franchise and has much acclaim from film-goers as well.
So "widely regarded" is far from accurate.
No. The odd/even-curse is still spot on. You only have to include the "Never say never again" of Trek movies, Galaxy Quest. Then it's not the official numbering, but the production order: every second Trek movie is good.
The Motion Picture: bad
Wrath of Khan: good
Search for Spock: bad
Voyage Home: good
Final Frontier: bad
Undiscovered Country: good
First Contact: good
Galaxy Quest: good
Into Darkness: bad
future project: ???
Sadly, this means in case of a potential ST4 the producers will probably try to fix something that isn't broken, and thereby deliver another underwhelming entry... (you heard it here first!)
AT the moment if i were to rank them it would be
To be more accurate, the odd/even curse was reversed once we hit double digits. Nemesis is the tenth, hated. XI is the eleventh, loved. STID is the twelfth, hated. Beyond the thirteenth, loved.
To those nitpicking my assessment of the 3 nuTrek films:
1. I'm basing my statement off of how beloved/disliked the films have seemed to be with *fandom*, not with the general viewing audience.
2. I fully admit that, even so, I haven't done a scientific poll of the fandom - I'm basing what I said off of a rough reckoning of the things I've seen said here on the board.
So feel free to take the whole thread with a grain of salt - or with an M-113 creature.
For the record, I, personally, like Star Trek III a lot, and while STID was my least favorite of the nuTrek films, I certainly wouldn't put it anywhere nearly as far down as Insurrection or Nemesis. If it's "bad", I'd say it's probably the best of the bad.
ST09/STID/STB for me. not that I consider STB was bad..its just the previous 2 were more like the original movies, and STB was more the tv series and ive always liked the movies the most
Luckily, I have no interest whatsoever in what the "fandom" thinks about anything, because the "fandom" is just this nebulous thing that has no real consensus.
I'm of the opinion, sure. But I'm just one man.
I'm very fond of the Odd/Even Curse just because it's fun to talk about. But even then, a large chunk of the Odd movies, I'm also very fond. So in my head I reconcile that by saying that the Odd/Even Curse holds up (at least used to), but it's not Bad/Good, but Good/BETTER.
Then Nemesis had to go and change that up. Hah!
Hoo boy, here we go.
I'd actually place them as Beyond, STID, ST09.
But that's just my opinion, man.
Also, TMP and TSFS are not bad movies.
ST09 - Excellent
STB - Very Good
STID - Good
As of now my favorite of the three is 2009. Into Darkness was fine, but not as good. I've only seen Beyond once and it's been about six weeks so my memory of it is fading. I'd have to see it again to decide where it falls on the list.
For me ST09 was barely ok, STID a flaming pile of hot garage, and STB was pretty damn fun and entertaining, but still not as good as the best of the TOS movies.
I liked Into Darkness best of the three, then Star Trek (09), then Beyond. But they're all good, and Beyond might have been my favorite if they hadn't dragged out the destruction-of-the-Enterprise action sequence so long.
I never believed in the curse, personally. It is as subjective as everything else and fun to talk about, but a bit silly to take seriously or even rationalize. I saw STMP as an experiment in taking Trek in a more "pure" sci-fi direction that just missed its target, yet was still more than successful enough to spawn all the subsequent movies. What may have been unusual at the time is that TWOK was popularly considered a better movie (as the conventional belief was sequels never equal the original), and it's the one that essentially re-launched the franchise (as it became the template for the subsequent TOS movies). TSFS may have been a bit of a drop from TWOK, but it's a fine Trek movie on its own. To me, the only real clinker in the six is TFF, which isn't so much bad as just forgettable.
As far as odd-even goes with the Abrams movies, I think they're all pretty good, but for what it's worth, I think the even numbered one, STID, is the best. Of the three, I think it will only get even better received as it's viewed over time. To me, that movie caught the essence of "Star Trek" -- as I've come to know it at least -- better than any of the other Trek movies.
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