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12 Monkeys..tv show

Liked what they did with Ramses and Cassie
Interesting as to what happens next year
so I wonder if Cole's mother has a role to play...

I do have to say I hope its not going to be this is all predestined. And fate and history cant be changed ..not my preference
 
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Actually I prefer the self-consistent model where the past can't be changed. Most time-travel fiction treats history as easily mutable, and that makes it a cliche. Really, how often has the immutable-history model really been explored in TV or film? The original 12 Monkeys is the first example that springs to mind. There's also The Twilight Zone's "Back There." Gargoyles used immutable history to impressive effect. Andromeda did it in the first season, but then abandoned it later on. So yeah, it's been done before, but far, far less often than the history-changing model. And that means its potential hasn't been as fully mined.

I think 12 Monkeys's use of immutable time travel is interesting in the same way Gargoyles was -- because the writers have this whole nonlinear history all worked out in advance, and as the series goes on, you learn more and more about how the pieces fit together in ways you weren't expecting.
 
When Olivia said "There is no more powerful force in the universe than fate" any normal persons kneejerk reaction should have been "Fuck you, love is more powerful than fate!!"

Loved saved the day and changed the fate of everyone.
 
I finally found the answer to this question I had about the opening scenes of "Shonin":

Okay, does anybody recognize the song that was playing in the Tokyo bar in the 1987 scenes in the first act? I could swear I've heard it before, most likely in some anime show or something.

Turns out it's a song called "Nageki no KIDS" ("Kids of Sorrow") by Risa Yuuki, which was the opening title song to a 1988 anime film called Zillion: Burning Night in English, a direct-to-video sequel to a series called Red Photon Zillion. There's a clip of it on YouTube, and as I watched it, I gradually realized that I had seen that movie on TV sometime in the '90s. I'm amazed that I'd remember the song from that long ago, when I'd otherwise completely forgotten about the existence of the anime otherwise.

Unfortunately, this creates an anachronism, since the song is playing in the nightclub a year before the release of the movie it was written for. Then again, this is a time travel show, so maybe the nightclub's DJ will turn out to have been from the future...? :D
 
So, I just binge-watched the first season on my DVR.

I love this show. It's very fun, well-written, with great characters and a really interesting time travel super-plot. Even the credit opening is one my favorites for any show.

The movie it's based on is a great sci-fi film, but I much prefer the series. Time travel is really hard to use well without writing yourself into all kinds of corners or contradicting the mechanics one episode to the next, but this show does quite well keeping things straight and you can see the effort behind the scenes to not just make shit up as they go along.

The writers obviously had all the main time-travel related events mapped out across at least the first season beforehand, so we didn't get the wasted opportunities of something like the Temporal Cold War of Enterprise. I like Enterprise quite a lot, but introducing something so universe-changing as a war across time and then doing essentially nothing productive with it before it was abandoned, was a huge letdown.

Production design for the future reminds me of the Fallout series, which is always a plus. The main actors are all great, with complex heroes and villains who alternate between being pro- and reactive, rather than one or the other being the sole drivers of the plot.

I'm not convinced that this series is aiming for a fixed timeline: i.e., even though things happen like Cassie getting killed and then resurrected, which on it's face implies a mutable timeline, it could be that the existence of a time machine only allows for cause and effect to switch sequence, but all causes and all effects that do happen, have always happened, and can only happen in the order and manner that they happen.

The bromance/love story effect on the outcome of the season finale, the reactions of the future baby cultists, as well as the villain's ardent belief in whatever prior knowledge they have of future history through the Witness, suggest that events were supposed to turn out one way, but took a different tack instead. And this seemingly without a temporal intervention changing the actions of Cole, Cassie or Ramse. As in, no one appeared and made Ramse give Cole the option of splintering Cassie, or made Cole stop and go back for Ramse.

Although, I suppose that all depends on what exactly the purpose of the hypnotic suggestion with the red forest that the villains gave to Cassie was supposed to accomplish. The writers could be playing a deeper game and Cassie's appearance, actions and influence on events during the climax could actually have been intended by the Witness all along, he lied to his cultists for whatever reason, and it just looked to us like free will changed fate.

Whatever the answer, I'm really looking forward to next season. Finally, an original Syfy channel show, with actual sci-fi, that's good! Now, as long as it doesn't turn out Cassie was a secret Cylon the whole time, we should be OK.
 
Good show. Just watched it this weekend.

Not much to add to what has already been said here, but I'll point one thing out: lots of folks have been saying that Cole changed things by going back and saving Ramse at the very end. But that's completely ignoring the possibility that a future Ramse popped into that room a minute after they left, and died on the floor. With his body not aging normally, it has to be a possibility.

Good fakeout on the Witness. The characters on the show assumed it was Ramse, and the viewers all thought the same thing. The writers got us all!

So now that Cassie is in the future, won't she get sick and die immediately?

Though now that I think about it, there's another possibility. If, as hinted, the Cassie that dies at the CDC in 2017 has spent a long period of time travelling through time herself, she may not have been dying due to the virus, it may have been caused by some other injuries or illnesses sustained in the future.

I think I'm glad that I decided to sit down and watch it all at once. I may have had a tough time watching it once every 7 days earlier this year. Far easier to keep all the timelines straight while watching it all together.

It took me 3 or 4 episodes to figure out where I had seen the actress who played Cassie before. Imdb finally told me that I had seen her on Suits.
 
Good show. Just watched it this weekend.

Not much to add to what has already been said here, but I'll point one thing out: lots of folks have been saying that Cole changed things by going back and saving Ramse at the very end. But that's completely ignoring the possibility that a future Ramse popped into that room a minute after they left, and died on the floor. With his body not aging normally, it has to be a possibility.

Good fakeout on the Witness. The characters on the show assumed it was Ramse, and the viewers all thought the same thing. The writers got us all!

So now that Cassie is in the future, won't she get sick and die immediately?

Though now that I think about it, there's another possibility. If, as hinted, the Cassie that dies at the CDC in 2017 has spent a long period of time travelling through time herself, she may not have been dying due to the virus, it may have been caused by some other injuries or illnesses sustained in the future.

I think I'm glad that I decided to sit down and watch it all at once. I may have had a tough time watching it once every 7 days earlier this year. Far easier to keep all the timelines straight while watching it all together.

It took me 3 or 4 episodes to figure out where I had seen the actress who played Cassie before. Imdb finally told me that I had seen her on Suits.


yeah, that'd be nice if it's an OLD Cassie that dies...

Also, Ramsey made a joke with Cole "Are you my daddy?"

Is it possible it's the other way around -- Ramsey is actually Cole's father?
 
This is currently airing down here, and I am watching every episode. This show is better than it has any right to be! It's gloomy and earnest enough for "serious" people to like it, but it also is developing quite a complicated time travel story with hardly a misstep. Odd things dropped in conversation suddenly take on new meaning 6 episodes later, giving a pleasant "a-ha" feeling. The "red forest" idea initially seemed like awfully cheesy dialogue but is now paying off. My only big problem with the show is it lacks humour. Jennifer Goines should really be the main source of the laughs in this show, but while the actor can play crazy I'm not convinced she can be funny. We'll see....
 
Has nobody been following the new season of this? It's gotten pretty interesting, though it's definitely changed tone from season 1, when changing history was portrayed as almost impossible. Now the timeline seems to be increasingly in flux, and I'm not sure I like that, but the execution's okay so far. This week we got Continuum's Eric Knudsen, unable to get away from time paradoxes, and hints that he and Jennifer and other "Primaries" are linked in some kind of cross-temporal group mind that might be the real driving force behind all this, maybe, kinda. Also worth noting that the episode was written by former Voyager/Enterprise producer MikeSussman, who's a member of this very BBS (though he hasn't been active for a while).

But seriously -- Cole's been in 1944 for two months, and he's been able to get by with long hair and constant stubble? No. Way. That was paid lip service to in his scene with Jay Karnes (another Voyager veteran), but he would've gotten that same reaction from everyone, and I can't buy that he wouldn't have just given in at some point and gotten a shave.
 
So does tonight's episode affect Kiera Cameron's ability to get back home to her family? :D
 
This season has been great so far. The introduction of Primaries is an interesting new twist.
Have they explained exactly what the significance of the plants turning red is? I know we saw it last season, but I can't remember what the context of it was there.
I like that we're actually getting Cassandra and Cole time traveling together now.
It's starting to look like the virus is going to be a smaller part of the show as it goes on. I wouldn't be surprised if that whole thing is resolved by the end of this season.
 
Have they explained exactly what the significance of the plants turning red is? I know we saw it last season, but I can't remember what the context of it was there.

It just seems to be something that happens in the presence of timey-wimey stuff.

I like that we're actually getting Cassandra and Cole time traveling together now.

Both actors are a little more interesting now that they've basically swapped personas, with Cole becoming the more principled one and Cassie the more wounded/hardened one. I still think Kirk Acevedo should've been the star all along, though.

It's starting to look like the virus is going to be a smaller part of the show as it goes on. I wouldn't be surprised if that whole thing is resolved by the end of this season.

Yeah, they hinted that the virus might just be one part of something much bigger.
 
My wife and I have watched the show from the beginning and both of us really like it. It's taken the basic premise of the movie and taken it in so many interesting directions. My hat's off to the writers for keeping it as interesting and concise as it is. I have no idea how long they can keep it going, but I'm in for the ride.
 
So is Sam the witness? Via the law of economy of characters, it would make for better storytelling for the witness to be someone we already know instead of a character that appears out of nowhere (like Will Patton on 24), but the witness was most likely there in the past to meet him... unless he went back in time to meet himself.
 
I don't know what kind of temporal madness they have planned anymore. The time-travel logic this season has degenerated into pure fantasy. Time that thinks and evolves? Collapsing time? Paradoxes create red storms? This is complete, insane gibberish. It makes Legends of Tomorrow's temporal physics seem plausible. The character work and the production values are still reasonably good, but now that they've started overtly playing around with changes to the timeline, all bets are off and it's just arbitrary weirdness.

How come some people were horribly maimed by splintering, yet others -- like Sam and the two soldiers in the corridor -- came through perfectly fine without having had injections first? That was a bit too plot-convenient.
 
The soldiers confused me too.
I'm glad that they are starting to actually get some interaction with The Witness.
I had been starting to wonder if The Witness was going to be someone like an older version of Cassie or Cole, but after the most recent episode I'm starting to wonder if Aragorn is right and it's Sam.
I'm disappointed they killed Eckland, I like Michael Hogan, and it was kind of interesting having a character who had this whole history with the main characters that none of them remembered.
EDIT: IGN has a new interview with Amanda Schull.
 
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