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12 Monkeys..tv show

If this show lasts 5 years, it can't still be about mapping the extents of a closed system.

Besides, they can't out do the movie repeating the movie verbatim, they have to tell a different story with the same tools.

Yes I understand that a story about pre-destination would be harder for the writers to tell. That's why I admire them more. The disregard for life because they're already dead was a powerful theme in the movie, as was the characters doubting their sanity. Those elements seem to be very much diluted in the first episode at least.

Many worlds time travel is equally an illusion though. Whatever can happen is happening in a reality somewhere so technnically the characters have no greater agency. All we are doing is enjoying the ride with the characters as they follow a particular path. Pre-destination can conjure an equal amount of excitement IMO.
 
Of course, Cole can't actually be dead. Even aside from the fact that he's the star of the show, he hasn't gone back to 1987 yet. He could've splintered just before the missile hit.

In the first few episodes, don't they release the virus in 2016? Since the CIA was trying to release the virus in 2015 (like in the alternate reality where Cassie is murdered), I was assuming the Cole we saw that died was the Cole from THAT reality resetting the timeline to the 2016 virus timeline. I'm thinking that's why we never see him splinter into the future in this episode.
 
Another interesting episode, a bit more insight to project Splinter and learning about Spearhead.
 
And Percy!

Behind the camera is a producer form the recent Nikita.

3 of the principles are from the recent Nikita.

Beardo in charge of project Spearhead is the big bad from the first couple seasons of Nikita.

How long until we get some Melinda Clarke being all sexy and evil?
 
Honestly, the villainous general's plan makes more sense to me than Dr. Jones's plan. I mean, viruses are always mutating. And they have to mutate from something. Whatever virus wiped out most of humanity, it evolved from some pre-existing virus. If you change history to keep it from getting out in 2017, then an equally lethal mutation could still show up in 2027 or 2057. A time-travel reset isn't a long-term solution, just a stopgap. But a predictive treatment program that anticipates new mutations, if it could work, would be a much better solution.

Of course, it was supposed to sound plausible enough to get Ramse and Whitley to question whether Jones was right. But at the same time, the episode went overboard painting the general as a murderous fanatic so that we'd know he was wrong, and that feels like a cheat.

I wonder how Ramse will feel about the plan now that he knows he has a son. If they reset the timeline, then that child will probably never be born. So now he has something to lose if history is changed. I wonder if the show will address that.
 
They don't know that the virus was caused by sending back an infected corpse yet.

All they really have to do is take a short hop back, 5 to ten years to destroy the time machine before it sends the infected corpse back, and the world is saved, and the virus never happened and can never have happened again.

Why exactly hasn't Jones figured this out yet? Hasn't she seen Terminator?
 
^ The problem is if they send somebody back in time to destroy the time machine, then you have a paradox because if the time machine is destroyed, then you can't have somebody go back in time to destroy the time machine. So, there's always going to be the time machine.
 
Do you think that stopping the virus that killed %99.999999 of the human race, from happening is a smaller paradox?
 
Hm. I thought I'd heard that the show wasn't doing well in the ratings. I'm not loving the show, but it's moderately interesting, so I guess I'm pleased by the news. Although losing Natalie Chaidez as showrunner is worrisome. The fact that the show was being run by a Sarah Connor Chronicles veteran was the main reason I decided to try it out.
 
Hm. I thought I'd heard that the show wasn't doing well in the ratings. I'm not loving the show, but it's moderately interesting, so I guess I'm pleased by the news. Although losing Natalie Chaidez as showrunner is worrisome. The fact that the show was being run by a Sarah Connor Chronicles veteran was the main reason I decided to try it out.

The ratings have been really low, but the trend is now a positive one with the last 3 episodes getting higher ratings then the previous.
 
Sat down and watched the webisodes yesterday.

Minor cast members bitching about the events in each episode.

Each lasting a minute at most.

Meh.
 
Like the show. Creating an interesting dilema with Jones destruction of Palmer s possible cure..ia she telling the truth?
 
No, they made it clear that she was lying.

(Non verbally, if you were looking away from your screen for the wrong 30 seconds, you might have missed it.)

Although it seems a little obvious that a possible plan now (after Jones is shot in the back of her head) might be to send the cures for the earlier viruses (and the current?) back to the past and inoculate the planet so that they don't notice the virus if it ever does happen.
 
^I think what we were being shown was that Foster had cured the more recent viral strain, and Jones destroyed the evidence of his success.


In general, I'm tired of dark'n'gritty as a storytelling style, since it's been done to death by this point. But I have to admit, the dark twists last week were really powerful for me and got me more intrigued by the show than I have been up to now. Because it's just so well-done and striking. We've been given half a season to get to know Jones as someone who's eccentric but noble in her intentions, someone we should trust as our heroes' guide through their experiences, and now the rug has been pulled out and we see she's the dangerous, lying fanatic she accused Foster of being. And yet it makes perfect sense in terms of what's been set up before. She's been telling us all along that she expects their entire timeline to be erased — and now we see the horrible ramification of that, since it means she feels entitled to do anything, no matter how brutal, and convince herself that it's okay because she's going to make it all unhappen later on. I love it when a story hides something in plain sight and then reveals it like that. Also, seeing Ramse and Cole turn on each other is powerful since we've gotten so invested in their friendship, and since their reasons make sense.


Dark'n'gritty first caught on because it was such a striking exception to, and subversion of, what had been normal in the past — for instance, when The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen turned comics on their ear by showing the darker ramifications of superhero stories. But then everyone else started copying those successes, and it wasn't exceptional or subversive anymore, just imitative and fashionable. Just being dark for its own sake isn't enough; light or dark, what's important is to have a meaningful story to tell and to tell it well.

And I think what we're seeing here works as subversion. We've all seen stories about time-travelers trying to undo post-apocalyptic futures, and we're conditioned to root for them, whether it's Kyle Reese or Marty McFly or Kitty Pryde (or Wolverine in the movie). So we've been rooting for Cole and Jones, because it's the formula we're used to. But now the show is telling us, wait a minute, maybe using time travel to undo the apocalypse is the wrong answer. Maybe we've been rooting for the wrong side and ignoring the darker ramifications of the trope. And that is not imitative, that is fresh and subversive and fascinating.
 
I agree, they really do a good job at some of these twists and characters can be quite engaging.
 
Honestly, I found the show mediocre before this last episode. This is the first time it's really impressed me, and I hope they keep it up.
 
Yeah, I was shocked to see the direction they took Ramse's character, but like you said, they set it up so that you could understand and sympathize with him.
It is a little scary what Jones is willing to do.
I got a kick out of seeing Jennifer Goines in the future.
I'm glad to see we're finally getting to see what exactly happened in 1987.
I had thought that Matalas and Fickett were already the showrunners, so I'm surprised to hear they are just taking over now.
 
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