Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JoeZhang, Jul 20, 2013.
The logo should be sufficient to make it clear, no?
Problem with that is that the only 2 people around that know about the kryptonian atmosphere effect is Lois and Superman. I doubt they would mention it to anyone.
You can introduce a new villain who also knows, like Brainiac.
Is that a real period image? I didn't know they did high fives back then.
The overkill in the climax was its biggest problem by far. By the time the Superman-Zod fight started and buidings began collapsing again, I was this close to yelling "Seriously?" at the screen, and my only reaction was "Enough already, just make it stop!" But the film certainly has other massive problems on the level of characterization and plot structure.
Personally I'm eager for a new Batman. I always found Bale to be one of the weaker links in the Nolan movies. And I'll be happy if I never have to hear that stupid Bat-growl again.
That's a given, of course, but my point is that even using TDKR as a conceptual or stylistic inspiration or a model for how to approach the characters is problematical, because it's not supposed to represent the normal personalities or interactions of the characters in their prime, but is an extreme alternative take on them both, a speculation about what they both could evolve into in a far darker, dystopian future. TDKR was meant to be a radical, subversive, satirical alternate take on the characters. Using it as a conceptual or stylistic template for their default portrayal is completely missing the point. And the fact that a generation of comics authors in the '90s and '00s have done exactly that doesn't make it any less a mistake.
But on the other hand, titles like The Winter Soldier or Age of Ultron are much the same, significant to fans but obscure to the masses. That hasn't stopped Marvel from using them.
And of course, "World's Finest" was the title used for the 3-part Batman-Superman crossover in The New Batman/Superman Adventures.
That's quite a clever idea.
They're using them as subtitles, which is very different from using them as standalone titles. You could use the title of Superman & Batman: World's Finest, but I don't think it would fit the mood and tone they'll be going for.
From the studios POV this might not be a bad movie in terms of $$$ as despite Man of Steel large total, its drop off week by week has been pretty steep for example it unlikely it will hit $300 million (US Box Office) despite the large opening. A Batman/Superman movie will be huge and will help any standalone MoS sequel.
This could be huge.
^ Those were my thoughts. I suspect if MOS had done the sort of money WB's Jeff Robinov (since departed the studio) expected it to do, a straight MOS would have been announced.
So they're doing this to boost MOS? They don't think this Superman franchise can carry a sequel with Superman alone being the main protagonist?
I'm sure they could put the pieces together, what with having lots of Kryptonian wreckage to examine, the difficulties the Kryptonians were having with our atmosphere, and Zod's plan to convert our environment to be more like Krypton's....plus Lois may have let the cat out of the bag between scenes after her experience on the ship. I remember her mentioning that Superman might be weaker around the World Engine, and that may have been in front of others....
Coming from a professional author, I'm flattered. It would also avoid the coincidence of Kryptonian fragments winding up on Earth, considering that in MoS, Kal-El's ship went into warp before the planet exploded.
Here's my premature theory:
In the aftermath of the Kryptonian attack on Earth, the US government contracts with LexCorp to rebuild Metropolis and with the newly solvent again (after Wayne recovered his fortune and the company got a bailout) Wayne Enterprises to develop countermeasures to fight any potential future Kryptonian threats. The government also does not fully trust Superman yet and is not sure whether he'll interfere with US government foreign policy, so secretly the project is also to develop countermeasures against him.
Wayne Enterprises has access to scans of Superman and Zod fighting in Metropolis and near their destroyed satellite, military scans of Clark's escape pod, Zod's Kryptonian armor which he shed in Metropolis, and the debris from the destroyed World Engine to analyze. They reverse engineer the armor and are able to access a Kryptonian computer from the world engine.
The Wayne Enterprises project is overseen by CEO Bruce Wayne, back from overseas and retired from crimefighting, leaving that to his protege John "Robin" Blake, the new Batman (Wayne is recast, and Blake doesn't even have to show up or can just be a brief cameo). Wayne has essentially taken over the trainer/mentor/armorer roles of Ducard, Alfred, and Fox from the DK trilogy with the rookie Batman Blake. Gotham is also undergoing its own recovery program post-Bane, allowing Wayne to fix the city's ills through charitable, social, and infrastructure/redevelopment projects like his father did. Bruce is content in this new role and is able to have a meaningful relationship with Selina.
Clark, through researching the Wayne Enterprises project as a journalist, learns of the nature of the secret program and its development of countermeasures against Kryptonians. Seeing as all the other Kryptonians are seemingly locked away in The Phantom Zone, Clark sees this as a clear threat to himself from the still somewhat distrustful US government and sees the potential for a new global arms race to develop using highly volatile Kryptonian technology that could destroy mankind. He vows to destroy the lab and all its data.
Wayne has anticipated this possibility though, and the lab utilizes Kryptonian materials in its construction, rendering Superman weakened when he lands there much as Kryptonite would. While Superman struggles to exit the lab, Bruce uses the time to prepare () by donning the new reverse engineered Kryptonian/Applied Sciences hybrid exo-skeleton BatSuit he was developing. This suit has sensors similar to Superman's senses, flight capability, super strength and speed, enhanced armor, anti-Kryptonian weapons, and can survive in most environments, including space. It's an improvement on the Kryptonian armor which Zod and Co. were able to give Superman a very hard time dealing with.
Superman and Bruce/Batman fight to a draw after an epic battle that leaves most of the lab destroyed anyway, with the exception of the suit. Unbeknownst to Clark and Bruce, their fight has lowered containment protocols around the damaged central computer of the world engine, allowing the Kryptonian AI Brainiac to escape into Wayne Enterprises computers and eventually into the wild. When Clark and Bruce learn of this, they decide to set aside their differences and team up to stop Brainiac before it can gain control of the US military's drones, ships, nuclear stockpile, and other automated systems and threaten the world. They have another epic showdown against Brainiac's armies of robots and vessels, and eventually emerge victorious together.
Clark decides he can trust Bruce with his secret identity and with the ability to kill him and other Kryptonians with Kryptonite should something go wrong with him. Bruce shares his identity with Clark as well, and decides that he's not ready to give up the mantle of the Bat just yet, vowing to fight to change/save the world from the bigger threats it faces while letting Blake deal with saving Gotham. As far as the people know, though, both Batmen are one and the same person. Clark and Bruce also decide that they need to form a team to counter threats to the Earth, thus leading to the Justice League.
In the coda, Bruce tells the US government that he will no longer be developing the Anti-Kryptonian weapons that he promised them, seeing the project as a dead end with no applications. The US government is not pleased, and decides to take what materials and data they can salvage from the Wayne Enterprises lab and bring it to the next interested party, LexCorp. As the films ends, we see greedy corporate CEO Lex Luthor looking over the tech and smiling as he contemplates what he can do with all of this power. In the background, we see campaign mockups promoting Lex Luthor for President, which is his next step after becoming the billionaire hero who spent a fortune rebuilding Metropolis.
I don't know. It's like I'm just not enough of a slut, for lack of a better analogy. I committed to Bale, for better or worse, and he's gone, but I'm not ready to jump on the next guy who walks in the door.
It's too soon.
I guess that makes me a jaded old courtesan since I've lived through at least five Batmen in my lifetime, so the prospect of one more doesn't faze me.
"It took a lot of Caped Crusaders to change my name to Shanghai Lil . . . ."
Three Batmen in eight years no less!
I think it'd more likely be something like Man of Steel: World's Finest. As someone mentioned, only one of the Nolan-produced DC films has actually had the superhero's name in the title.
Still, I can see the objections to the title. I'm just saying it can't be ruled out.
Its the Avengers effect that boosted Iron Man 3 and most likely will do the same for Thor & Captain America. Also if the movie is "good" then it will help negate any dodgy WoM that MOS has had and lets face it there is some and yes it probably could boost all DC movies to come.
Can't see anything beating Superman vs. Batman for impact.
I think they should call it Superbat and make it campy as fuck.
Yet, the James Bond films don't have that problem.
Quantum of Solace -- what the frell does that mean? Die Another Day -- wazzawho? Neither title says James Bond to me, but the marketing behind the title makes it clear what and who it's about. No one on this Earth will know that World's Finest doesn't star Batman and Superman if Warners puts even a scintilla of marketing into the film.
Seriously, if Warners credits their audience with a modicum of intelligence and names the film straight-up World's Finest, I will fistpunch the air like there's no tomorrow.
If anything, Hollywood today seems to like obscure titles that reveal nothing about the film. Andrew Niccol's film that started out with the memorable title I'm.mortal ended up being released as In Time, which tells you nothing. The film that should've been called John Carter of Mars or A Princess of Mars or Warlord of Mars or something like that ended up being just John Carter, which is as generic as you can get. And the upcoming Tom Cruise military sci-fi movie that used to have the unforgettable title All You Need Is Kill has just been retitled as Edge of Tomorrow, which sounds like a daytime soap opera.
I have no doubt you're probably right; my problem is that I'm filtering this through the lens of a more casual/non comic book fan. I'm not the demographic the movie is aiming for. I loved Superman growing up and read some comics, but I didn't follow the comics faithfully or get into comics for any other superhero franchises, so the idea of a pairing inspires a shrug of the shoulders from me. As someone who wasn't totally impressed/blown away by MoS but who thought Cavill showed promise as the character, this disappoints me a bit. I wanted Superman to have more time on his own.
Not that the movie couldn't be good, but it's got to have so many things go just right. Batman has to be cast perfectly. Snyder has got to pen a better story (Yahoo says he's writing the story). Superman has to continue to get realistic character development that isn't overshadowed by CGI battles, by Batman himself, etc. All the potential fans pulled over from the Batman franchise need to be intrigued by this version of Batman and not feel like he's getting short shrift. More mainstream fans of Nolan franchise may not be any keener for Batman to pair up with Superman. TPTB may get it right. They may catch lightning in a bottle and get it all right, but it sure seems like there's more potential pitfalls if they're already disappointed with the financial success of MoS, which I'd thought was doing well if not an overall critical success.
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