What is your opinion of season 3 as a whole?
- Thread starter Rahul
- Start date
‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Ended Season 3 Without Returning To Streaming Top 10
The numbers are in for the week of the season 3 finale, and SNW didn't make the top 10, again.
trekmovie.com
It's interesting how much they are emphasizing the "record" part but forget to mention that Paramount+ released two episodes on the same day. This is the first time Paramount+ released two Star Trek episodes on the same day since P+ is submitting data to Nielsen.
The actual view time of the first two episodes (236m minutes) was way below the average view time for Season 2 (349m minutes).
Code:
SNW S02E01 338 07
SNW S02E02 393 08
SNW S02E03 <381 <10
SNW S02E04 351 09
SNW S02E05 <346 <10
SNW S02E06 324 10
SNW S02E07 324 10
SNW S02E08 395 09
SNW S02E09 362 07
SNW S02E10 304 10
SNW S03E01 471 07
SNW S03E02 471 07
SNW S03E03 472 09
SNW S03E04 397 07
SNW S03E05 <279 <10
SNW S03E06 <315 <10
SNW S03E07 <326 <10
SNW S03E08 <326 <10
SNW S03E09 <342 <10
SNW S03E10 <360 <10
Then your real issue is that the writers don't take Spock seriously and don't write him as a serious charcter. Since they are exploring other sides of him.
Well, considering Pike’s own leadership style is being called into question, maybe Pike isn’t the best role model for Spock when it comes to leadership.
Mainly because the writers are too focused on exploring Spock's friendship with Jim Kirk.
So, can’t he do that when his relationship with La’an ends?
Why does he need to keep constantly reflecting on his relationships?
Or maybe he's closer to TOS Spock then realized.
They can make excuses about how the writers strike affected quality and viewership.‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Ended Season 3 Without Returning To Streaming Top 10
The numbers are in for the week of the season 3 finale, and SNW didn't make the top 10, again.
It's interesting how much they are emphasizing the "record" part but forget to mention that Paramount+ released two episodes on the same day. This is the first time Paramount+ released two Star Trek episodes on the same day since P+ is submitting data to Nielsen.
The actual view time of the first two episodes (236m minutes) was way below the average view time for Season 2 (349m minutes).
Code:SNW S02E01 338 07 SNW S02E02 393 08 SNW S02E03 <381 <10 SNW S02E04 351 09 SNW S02E05 <346 <10 SNW S02E06 324 10 SNW S02E07 324 10 SNW S02E08 395 09 SNW S02E09 362 07 SNW S02E10 304 10 SNW S03E01 471 07 SNW S03E02 471 07 SNW S03E03 472 09 SNW S03E04 397 07 SNW S03E05 <279 <10 SNW S03E06 <315 <10 SNW S03E07 <326 <10 SNW S03E08 <326 <10 SNW S03E09 <342 <10 SNW S03E10 <360 <10
It probably has more to do with CBS agreeing to a bias monitor, and likely far more impactfully, firing Stephen Colbert and cancelling his show. P+ probably lost a lot of subs with that decision.
Colbert wasn't fired. His contract ends next year, they just didn't make a new one for him.
If he doesn't do this soon > not good. Devil's advocate for now though. Nurse Chapel was the first time he feel in love and he fell hard. He doesn't know how to handle this because he's emotionally immature so he jumps onto the idea of a rebound. La'an is a rebound. He doesn't have to be hurt when he's with her and she doesn't have to think about Kirk. He's still stuck on Christine. He went to the god awful dinner where she invited Korby just to hang out with her and then bickered with Korby over who arrived first. He wants Korby to trip into a hole he just dug up and disappear but he's not going to so Spock makes himself feel better by leaping into things with La'an. It's mature because it's shallow. He likes spending time with her and getting an ego boost without actually getting vulnerable the way he did with Nurse C. It's easy to be mature when you care about someone but don't love them. People do leap into bad idea rebounds so they're not alone and can pretend they're moving on. It'll probably come crashing down when La'an gets a shot at Kirk, one of them gets a wakeup call about how much like their original partners (e.g. Chapel nearly dies) or they get bored of each other. I'm suprised they didn't end at the end of season 3 if they thought they wouldn't get renewed. It's an open plot point I thought they would mop up. I guess they want more time to show us the fail.
Christina Chong said she wants La'an to die in the final episode of the final series like a spin-off. She wants to collect that pay check till the end and who couldn't blame her. She's hoping her character goes evil
The romulan la'an was evil fun so why not 
She's going to want a shot at Year One. La'an isn't going anywhere until the last possible moment. She's safe through season 4 and 5 and they can't keep emotional Spock going that long.She's fine with Kahn. It's not like they would have told him and they knew his niece from seven generations ago anyway.
I don't follow. Does it matter that they release two on the one day? Didn't Ep 1 get 471m minutes and Ep 2 got the same? Big jump down from 4 to 5 though. Did this coincide with the Jimmy Kimmel firing? Or people just didn't like Ep 4?‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Ended Season 3 Without Returning To Streaming Top 10
The numbers are in for the week of the season 3 finale, and SNW didn't make the top 10, again.
It's interesting how much they are emphasizing the "record" part but forget to mention that Paramount+ released two episodes on the same day. This is the first time Paramount+ released two Star Trek episodes on the same day since P+ is submitting data to Nielsen.
The actual view time of the first two episodes (236m minutes) was way below the average view time for Season 2 (349m minutes).
Code:SNW S02E01 338 07 SNW S02E02 393 08 SNW S02E03 <381 <10 SNW S02E04 351 09 SNW S02E05 <346 <10 SNW S02E06 324 10 SNW S02E07 324 10 SNW S02E08 395 09 SNW S02E09 362 07 SNW S02E10 304 10 SNW S03E01 471 07 SNW S03E02 471 07 SNW S03E03 472 09 SNW S03E04 397 07 SNW S03E05 <279 <10 SNW S03E06 <315 <10 SNW S03E07 <326 <10 SNW S03E08 <326 <10 SNW S03E09 <342 <10 SNW S03E10 <360 <10
Sure, it's an issue. But they've slightly touched on other aspects of him and dedicated almost all his development to romance. Why do the same thing three times? Imagine T'Pol falling for Archer, then Trip and then Phlox and that being her main story. There would have been uproar. Spock of all characters needed more meat to him than romance.
Awesome idea, let's see if Spock wants to be same type of leader as Pike and what influence Pike is having on this. I'd love to see a young Spock leading missions and being less sure of himself.
They've done a bit of that. That was the high point of Sehlat so it was great to see. Other than that episode I think they've only had two scenes together. The Pike and Spock friendship was so important and we know nothing about it compared to the decades of Spock and Kirk. It should have been a core aim of this series but it hasn't been. More of this time should be spent here.
If they'd ended it sooner then sure but it's gone on for a long time now. Some insight into your own behaviour is key for character growth. He's moved from his fiancée, to being in love to having a casual / rebound thing and not paused to think about how this is affecting him or a the people he's involved with. That's a massive red flag. Spock's not perfect but he's a reflective and thoughtful man. It's pretty shallow to not even wonder if you're hurting your fiancée or your new causal partner. He's just stumbling through things like he's lost all of his wits.
I think he's very far from TOS Spock right now.
Very possibly. I'm not sure how related the strike was to writing quality. Production quality maybe because they had less time but they had years to ponder the scripts.
I do not feel we should use the same words as immature and fell in love hard in the same sentence. While I have issues with SNW, I also feel the show may point to reason why in real life 80% of people do not marry their first love of first girl friends. In fact more people marry those they met in college than high school or in the third grade.If he doesn't do this soon > not good. Devil's advocate for now though. Nurse Chapel was the first time he feel in love and he fell hard. He doesn't know how to handle this because he's emotionally immature so he jumps onto the idea of a rebound. La'an is a rebound. He doesn't have to be hurt when he's with her and she doesn't have to think about Kirk. He's still stuck on Christine. He went to the god awful dinner where she invited Korby just to hang out with her and then bickered with Korby over who arrived first. He wants Korby to trip into a hole he just dug up and disappear but he's not going to so Spock makes himself feel better by leaping into things with La'an. It's mature because it's shallow. He likes spending time with her and getting an ego boost without actually getting vulnerable the way he did with Nurse C. It's easy to be mature when you care about someone but don't love them. People do leap into bad idea rebounds so they're not alone and can pretend they're moving on. It'll probably come crashing down when La'an gets a shot at Kirk, one of them gets a wakeup call about how much like their original partners (e.g. Chapel nearly dies) or they get bored of each other. I'm suprised they didn't end at the end of season 3 if they thought they wouldn't get renewed. It's an open plot point I thought they would mop up. I guess they want more time to show us the fail.
Christina Chong said she wants La'an to die in the final episode of the final series like a spin-off. She wants to collect that pay check till the end and who couldn't blame her. She's hoping her character goes evil
She's fine with Kahn. It's not like they would have told him and they knew his niece from seven generations ago anyway.
A reddit user on the trek forum called the spock/chapel romance puppy love which I am not even sure it's a good word to use since the relationship was beyond toxic and one party beyond dominant to the point of unrealistic and insulting to 60 years of star trek history, which also erased any innocence from both parties to earn the puppy love tag.
If we tie it all to TOS which the show is leading towards, Spock in TOS has developed stronger feelings for Lelia which he tries to reconnect with in the side of paradise. Lelia may be rebound that stuck with him while Laan becomes the breaking point in SNW.
I do not know how much the show has left to tell in story but Laan can be a Gwen Stacey kind of character for Spock and why I see myself agreeing with Chong of wanting Laan to die.
Spock has moved past Christine by the end of season 3 which is tieing into TOS were he felt nothing for her. They writers now must really put any emotion aspect of whatever Spock has left going onto with Laan.
I feel the bigger task for the writers is for them to start making SNW Chapel become like TOS Chapel as we get closer to TOS in season 4 and season 5. Jess Bush would have to give the performance of a career to morph into Majel Barret, since SNW Chapel is as different from TOS Chapel is as oil and water.
I am very old school, so I just can never invest in streaming ratings. I am from the days of the 90s or early 2000s were Friends averaged 24 million viewers every night or 70 million people watched the Seinfeld finale.
Which reminds me I think the first TNG episode in the late 80s was watched by 27 million viewers and TNG used to average like 10 million viewers per episode which was big for a sci fi show.
Streaming has just created smokes and mirrors and gives power broker an excuse to tell lies and hype shows. I think the only streaming show that is a real massive hit that would also have done well in the classic era of TV is likely Stranger Things.
we do not know the real ratings for SNW but I will guess they average less than a CW show which will be under 3 million. I will even say it is under 1 million because even some of the youtube clip have low views.
Also the red flag is the cutting of season 5 to 6 episodes. it can only mean the ratings must be really bad, bad as in ...it cannot cover the budget at all but also I am not even sure this show knows its audience even if it has the title star trek.
Usually shows that are very female led do not do as well as male led show or shows were the gender is balanced like Friends, so Paramount just never targeted an audience.
StarFleet Academy, now we know that is clearly targeted for teenagers and the CW crowd but everything about the series seem to have been met with negative reactions...we will have to see what becomes of it.
People are disappointed right now in the social media age where everything is immediate. It's no different than Season 4 of TNG being better than Season 3 for example, they all vary in quality but the reaction back then was much slower.
It was a lesser season for me as I've said but far from "bad". I see a lot of overreacting.
I think that was an era when shows were given time to find their groove. Enterprise would have survived for 7 seasons in the 90s, it didn't in the 2000s. Things are cancelled very quickly now. It doesn't matter so much for SNW as that has a ticking clock on it but the show runners will care about the possibility of First Year. Paramount will be influenced by ratings and receptions (although goodness knows how they calculate this). The reception that's happening now will have to matter. In another 20 years, it will either all be good or all be shocking. Who knows.
You type in ‘cbs fires colbert’ in Google, and you can find articles and videos that use such language.
That’s a different characterization for T’Pol altogether, but would have been in line with how she was sexualized. It certainly would have been a different take on Vulcans, for sure, to depict one who viewed getting into relationship after relationship as logical.
As things actually happened in ENT, tt was Archer falling for T’Pol (and in ridiculous ways. The best depiction of their relationship was in “Twilight”), then Trip falling for T’Pol (and vice versa because Trellium-D). If ENT hadn’t been cancelled, maybe they would have gone in that direction and have Phlox fall for T’Pol.
Your argument is selling Spock’s story in SNW short, since his arc thus far is giving into his emotions, and not just romantic ones. Watch “All Those Who Wander” again – he gives into anger.
That said, Spock should have more emotional control now. That was the reason Spock gave Leila Kalomi for not pursuing that relationship. It’s around now that Spock should be more like Spock. It’s also around now that Korby disappears and SNW Chapel starts becoming TOS Chapel. We'll see if S4 can stick the landing for both.
I think that the biggest flaw with the L’a’an romance is that it wasn’t a relationship of the week. The writers actually tried to develop a relationship between the two, instead of have them use each other because they find each other hot and deal with the fallout from that. Maybe the writers found that approach too shallow. Or they were trying to build off of their history and personalities.
Yes, it should have. That was the show we were sold on.
Maybe Vulcan morality in regards to relationships is different.
T’Pol didn’t think of Koss when she had her one-night stand with Trip (tbf, Trip didn’t either, since he was aware of him years earlier). She was just experimenting. She did not think that Trip would get hurt watching her get married to Koss either.
It might not have been inappropriate of Spock to not reflect on his relationships with T’Pring and Chapel. That just might be the Vulcan way. Meaning Spock might not have been bothered with T'Pring and Stonn either, and might have figured something similar was happening between them. It just went unspoken until "Amok Time".
Maybe La’an is the one that forces Spock to reflect on his relationships.
Maybe season 4 and 5 should just ditch romance and build on the spock and kirk bromance and give Spock his real emotion core he had in TOS which was with Kirk.
May I remind all that spock most emotional and heart breaking scene was with kirk when he died in WOK.
That is still more memorable than any of his romance with any girl and that includes Lelia, Chapel, Uhura, Zarabeth, Tpring, Laan, Savik, Droxine.
While I have reservation about Spirk or kirk and spock been lovers but I can understand why some of the female watchers have interpreted their bond as such even if I disagree. Kirk and Spock are the love of each other lives but I personally don't see this as sexual or romance love.
I will like to see kirk and spock become like Sam and Frodo from LOTR as SNW goes on and let Laan die off and SNW Chapel fade into her TOS self, while any SNW Uhura potential romance should be limited with vague references to kelvin Trek.
Archer falling for T'Pol was pretty one sided (as so in appropriate given she was his first officer). Trip and T'Pol were mutually and a bit more even. The writers said that if they got season 5 then they would have kept their baby alive and develop their relationship. So I think that T'Pol only had one real relationship and a crush from Archer that she tried to shutdown. If they'd developed three relationships and moved her on each time after a season then I think there would have been outcry. She was oversexualised at the time but Trip and T'pol were very popular as I recall and I think people would have switched off. It was also a shocking choice to not develop T'Pol much beyond romance. She deserved better stories as well.
All Those who Wander had a better set up because he needed to let his guard down from the Gorn. Importantly though they explored the consequences of that until half way through the next season. He also did reflect on this in Ep 1 and Ep 5 where was saw that he was alarmed at this loss of control and trying therapies to try and regain his control. I feel like this is a good example of Season 2 being better written than Season 3.
If he's giving into his emotions then some pain / grief and some reflection is even more relevant. Others have said that he's still stuck on Chapel. I hope so as it will be a more meaningful story if we return to that relationship along with T'Pring rather than move forward with no further thought. My interpretation is he's still heavily affected by her in the Naked Now (obviously interpretations of this vary) so I think we need to get back there to some extent next season.
I'm wondering if we're going to see Korby again. The season could easily start with them engaged and we find out he's gone missing. I was hoping that he would go missing at the end of 3 so that we can move that relationship along. They haven't gotten much out of it and we have so few episodes left with the main cast that I don't want to waste more focusing on Korby.
I can't image a sadder outcome for Chapel than turning to the TOS Chapel. I actually don't think that they'll do this. I'm sure we'll see her grieving a bit but I think that this is the way Chapel was always meant to be rather than them actually turning her into Majel's interpretation. Some creative license is being taken and I'm fine with that. Chapel's a wonderful character and I don't want to see her being restricted to sickbay with almost no connections to the crew. I would prefer to not see her linger in sadness either as her vivacity is one of the best things about her. It will be a very sad character arc if we see go from funny, vibrant and clever to eternally sad and only able to hand McCoy a tray. I think they're a bit stuck with Christine as I don't know where they can take her after Korby goes missing except to be sad and think about Spock. The final episode of Season 1 implied a bit that this was what they were thinking.
I agree about Spock though. He needs to become Nimoy's Spock over the course of Season 4. It's part of the reason that I'm quite confident that La'an won't die or at least be the cause of Spock's transition. He has to get through most of the process across season 4 and 5 and they're not going to kill La'an in season 4 (Chong has said she's filming season 5). I suspect that it's why we'll see them break up in season 4.
Ironically I also might have preferred this if we'd then had a bit of time acknowledging that it didn't work and reflecting on the fallout. It would have shortened things a lot and given them access to do different things with Spock. Maybe they'll still do this in Season 4? I hope for this resolution as fast as possible.
Hope for season 4! Though I think they're sunsetting Pike and moving to Kirk bigtime. At least that's what they've largely stated this week.
An interesting way of thinking about it. It's been a long time but hadn't T'Pol already broken off her engagement by that point and she believed this to be permanent? I can't fully remember when this happened but I think it was Breaking the Ice in Season 1 or 2. If so then I think she was fully free from her perspective when she slept with Trip. I think she did know that Trip was hurt watching her get married. She become distressed talking about it with him, she apologised for it and then she kissed his check to indicate her feelings. She didn't plan on marrying Koss when she went to Vulcan, she got trapped.
In Spock's defence, this is not just a him problem this season. Christine has no reflection whatsoever despite some quite unfeeling behaviour. She just moves forward with Korby and invites Spock to drinks. Jess was able to convey some sadness and worry in her face but Ethan was a bit more constricted. Rightly or wrongly, a lot of people have disliked Christine as a result of this. I just find it more frustrating with Spock because he doesn't outwardly feel much about what's going which undermines their nice first two seasons of build up.
if it is any consultation I would say Jess is the strongest and most memorable actress on the show and may be even be too good to be on a niche streaming show like SNW. Jess Bush would have made a very good Sue Storm better than the one MCU hired.
I think she has movie star potential and she is mostly the complete package. SNW Chapel as an outside framed narrative reminds me of Stanley Kowalski from Tennessee Williams play, A Streetcar Named Desire, played by Marlon Brando.
Stanley was a truly terrible human being and acted very shitty to their partners but people loved that character regardless simply because Marlon Brando played him and people were in love with Marlon as some here are in love with Jess.
I doubt people would have been as forgiving to Chapel if she was not a hot blonde with charisma. I mean let's just call a spade a spade at his point as a POC myself. I feel that many of the people that dislike SNW christine, only do so because we already know the character from TOS so some of the stuff that has happened in SNW just seem ridiculous and out of character both for her and spock and this is my issue too.
If Jess Bush has played a new character with the same story line, I think the reception of the character would be very different. People will dislike Spock more also. a new female character that had Spock wrapped in her finger to the extent Spock can barely function? Meh and Bad. That is not Spock.
An established TOS character like Chapel who has Spock wrapped in her fingers that Spock can barely function? Unforgivable to Star Trek lore.
Last edited:
Why SNW Chapel might become TOS Chapel: Recovering from an injury/illness that curbs her ability to go on away missions (but still allows her to serve)
Why Spock might owe a lot to Pike: If La'an is lost somehow, Pike might support him, having lost Marie forever and therefore sympathizing (even though she's not dead, it'd feel like a death) - maybe Pike tries to save her but fails.
What if La'an was on the cadet ship Pike rescues kids on, too? He tried to save her but failed - maybe she told him, get the kids first - he goes back for her but she's dead. Nothing says there were no other non-cadets on the ship.
If you think about it, Spock pulls a Pike in TWOK - saving the people on the ship, at high risk and ultimate price to himself.
Why Spock might owe a lot to Pike: If La'an is lost somehow, Pike might support him, having lost Marie forever and therefore sympathizing (even though she's not dead, it'd feel like a death) - maybe Pike tries to save her but fails.
What if La'an was on the cadet ship Pike rescues kids on, too? He tried to save her but failed - maybe she told him, get the kids first - he goes back for her but she's dead. Nothing says there were no other non-cadets on the ship.
If you think about it, Spock pulls a Pike in TWOK - saving the people on the ship, at high risk and ultimate price to himself.
Gods no.
What do you think about the La'an idea I suggested?
What happens to M'Benga? How come we never hear from him ever again after That Which Survives? Pick another character who we never heard from after TOS.
Why does La'an have to die?
For Surak's sake, we never heard from Number One, Boyce, Colt, or Tyler. Are they all DEAD? Oh NO! Not Dr. Piper!
Why does La'an have to die?
For Surak's sake, we never heard from Number One, Boyce, Colt, or Tyler. Are they all DEAD? Oh NO! Not Dr. Piper!
Hell no. That undercuts both Pike and La'an by making everything connected in yet another case of small universe syndrome. We don't need to know La'an's ultimate fate. It's perfectly fine to still have mysteries.
Similar threads
- Poll
